Help with understanding noise

[caspercody]

Hello

I have noise in my sound that I think might be Magnetic Hum fields. When I sit in front of my amp with my guitar and I spin around in my chair, there are certain areas that the noise is gone, and if I spin a little left or right the noise is heard.

I have a ISP Decimator, and Fortin Zuul clone pedals, and they both get rid of all other noise, but even while I am playing and not in that one certain area with the noise gate on, I can still hear the noise while playing.

All I can find out is to just sit in those certain areas where there is no noise, but there has got to be a way to get rid of it.

Is it 60hz hum? Would something like a EHX Hum Debugger work for this issue? Does anyone have a DIY for eliminating 60hz (kind of like a noise gate but on lower frequencies)?

Thanks
Rob

[dschwartz]

Hello
Noise gates don't remove noise from the signal, they just mute the signal while you are not playing. The noise will be there while you're playing regardless the noise gate settings.

I assume you're using single coils and high gain, which is the best recipe for 60hz mayhem. Leave the single coils for clean and light OD's and use a humbucker for high gain , or get a noiseless single coil (which are really a stacked humbucker), or just turn down the gain.

There's no effective solution to make a single coil noiseless.
Every time i see a player using a strat with high gain I'm very suspicious.

[amz-fx]

Identifying the type of noise:

http://www.muzique.com/news/hum-whine-and-noise/

regards, Jack

[caspercody]

I get the same noise using Bias app on my iPhone with a Line 6 adapter into headphones. No 120vac connection. I just got back from out of town work, and I brought the iPhone set up with me, and in the hotel I got NO noise. On all the presets I used I actually turned off the Noise Gates.

I also tried a 120 vac plug from Home Depot (three prong in and two prong to outlet) that eliminates the ground connection, and still get the noise. I just bought some Mogami W2524 cable and made some new cables. I think it helped a little but still noise is present.

I am using a humbucker. I have tried 4 different type of humbuckers from three different manufactures.

I really think the pick ups are picking up stray noise. Now, how do I determine the frequency and get rid of it?

[mth5044]

Try turning on and off lights, computers, TV's, large appliances. I've done the spin around in the chair test many times 

[caspercody]

I tried that also. I turned off all, but the one breaker feeding my amp in my house. I made sure all the receptacles on that one circuit did not have anything plugged into them, or turned off. But still noise.

I walked outside and stood in my driveway with the iPhone and guitar set up (again this has no 120 vac connected), and still got the noise. So it might be something airborne. But I do not have any large antennas near my house. There is a cell tower but it is maybe half mile away.

Thanks everyone for your ideas, it might be just the one to help me or to realize there is nothing I can do.

[caspercody]

I also put copper tape inside the cavities on the guitar and made sure I have conductivity.

[MrStab]

hi Rob,

maybe you could buy a cheap EMF meter to help you find the source of the noise. apparently you can get apps to do it, but i'd trust a purpose-built device more.

just an idea.

[PRR]

> I really think the pick ups are picking up stray noise.

Of course. They don't know the difference between the delicate magnetic vibration of your fine playing, and AC power.

It is almost certainly Power Lines. Not cells or other crap.

Since you have a battery monitor, you HAVE an "EMF meter". Walk and waggle around trying to find the MOST hum. I bet you find power lines, fusebox, or power transformer. (You could probably come over and find my underground power line-- it isn't where I think it is.)

[bool]

It's just that Noise Loves you.

Embrace the Noise, and use it to your advantage! Make it a part of your artistic expression.

[amz-fx]

Hum problems are often related to a cable or audio jack problem. You should first check those items very closely before doing anything else.

Best regards, Jack

[amptramp]

So far, no one has mentioned the possibility of using a 60 Hz notch filter.  Since the lowest guitar frequency is 82 Hz, it should not interfere with the signal all that much.  Just understand that the deeper the notch, the more precise the tuning has to be.

[EBK]

I assume you're using single coils and high gain, which is the best recipe for 60hz mayhem. Leave the single coils for clean and light OD's and use a humbucker for high gain , or get a noiseless single coil (which are really a stacked humbucker), or just turn down the gain.

There's no effective solution to make a single coil noiseless.
Every time i see a player using a strat with high gain I'm very suspicious.

There is another noiseless single* coil arrangement employed on modern strats, i.e., having a reverse-wound, reverse-polarity (RWRP) pickup as the middle pickup.  When the pickup selector is set to use two pickups, the combination is effectively a humbucker.  So, if you see a strat player using high gain but without high hum noise, this may explain what you are seeing. 

*I know, this is really two coils, but since it is a switch setting on a standard single coil guitar, I think I'm only bending the rules slightly to refer to it as a single-coil arrangement.

I am using a humbucker. I have tried 4 different type of humbuckers from three different manufactures.

I really think the pick ups are picking up stray noise. Now, how do I determine the frequency and get rid of it?

Now, this is interesting. 
Have you tried different cables?  Are you using a speaker cable instead of an instrument cable?

Edit: I missed the part about the cables you've used.  Oops. 

[ElectricDruid]

So far, no one has mentioned the possibility of using a 60 Hz notch filter.  Since the lowest guitar frequency is 82 Hz, it should not interfere with the signal all that much.  Just understand that the deeper the notch, the more precise the tuning has to be.

Better to cure the disease than take pills to fight the symptoms.

But yeah... if you can't find the source, you could try notch filters to reduce the audible result of the problem. My bet is that as well as 60Hz hum, there's also power-line harmonics at 120Hz and 180Hz (etc) showing up an audible level, so I think you might have to be lucky for this to be a magic bullet.

[caspercody]

Thanks everyone! I just bought a EMF meter on Amazon, will first try to find the source, and even if it is AC noise.

I found this notch filter on the other site, it says it is a notch filter calibrated for 60hz hum and 80Hz hum, no sustain lose:

http://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16829

And I found this one also, on the other site:

http://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=29131&p=271187&hilit=variable+high+pass+filter#p271187

ANy thought on these filters?

[MrStab]

unfortunately your links haven't shown up properly, Rob.

any active filtering increases the noise floor elsewhere in the spectrum. maybe not a big deal if you're only using a few pedals, but i agree with Tom: it should be a last resort.

are there any big transformers nearby? is it definitely 60Hz and not 120Hz? Youtube will have recordings of each.

[caspercody]

This forum deletes the other forum in the links:

free+stomp+boxes.org/ - remove the + signs and put in front of the rest of the links.

[willienillie]

120Hz hum is easy to distinguish for guitar players, it's between the 1st and 2nd frets on the A string (bend the B flat a little).  But he's getting the hum outside, with non-AC-powered equipment.  I agree with Paul, it's almost certainly power lines, maybe underground.  60Hz in the US, 50Hz many other places.

[PRR]

> Hum problems are often related to a cable or audio jack problem.

Absol-frikkin-lutely!

Except: I spin around in my chair, there are certain areas that the noise is gone, and if I spin a little left or right the noise is heard.

It could be his jack makes good contact only at 69 degree angle, all else buzzes. But he's fiddled with this a while and I'd *think" he'd notice a consistent cord-angle problem; instead he hints at a room-angle problem. Yes, a typical pickup in room-size magnetic field will have two "nulls" in a 360 degree spin.

I still say walking around with guitar and battery headphones is a direct path to the cause of the problem. The solution may be obvious or awkward. (My boss' CRT PC monitor "shook" with AC hum, the main transformer was right under his office, he would not give-up his fine office....)

"Hum-buckers" pick up less magnetic field for distant sources but are not hum-FREE.

[caspercody]

I have used different cables, and it seems to be at that one or two spots of spinning in the chair is where I loose the noise.

Last night I took one of the humbuckers and tried different magnets:

Ceramic gets me the lowest noise and the widest in the sweet spot (I hope that makes sense)

Alnico 2, 3, 4, 5, and 8 are all about the same in noise, and the sweet spot is smaller. Meaning I have to be in that one spot, leaning back in chair. If I move either left or right, or lean forward..noise.

Rare earth was quieter then all the Alnico's but not as much as the Ceramic. I thought this one would be quietest, since it has the strongest magnet field.

I like the idea of the guitar/headphones walking around. I tried it outside on driveway and seemed to get same noise. Curious once I get the EMF meter to see what I find out, if anything.