Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?

[j_flanders]

Does it matter which type I order or is anything with the right hfe (Q1:70 (-85), Q2:120 (-140)) and low leakage ok?
Or are some types unsuitable for a Fuzz face?

As far as I know these are my options in Europe.

https://www.musikding.de/Germanium-Transistors

https://www.banzaimusic.com/Germanium-Transistors/
https://www.banzaimusic.com/Transistors-matched-selected/

http://www.newtone-online.nl/catalog/index.php?cPath=31_35

Any recommendations? Maybe more importantly on what definitely not to get (if any)

[mac]

All ACxxx I bought from different sources are too leaky for FF.
But good for Maestro FZ1.

I like japs like Matsushita 2sb17x family, 2sd352, or Hitachi 2sb77, or Toshiba 2sb54/56.

Toshiba 2sa49/52/53 have the right gain and low leakage, but their internal capacitance is low. ACxxx have higher capacitance.

mac

[j_flanders]

Thanks Mac.
Excluding all AC's from the shops above it leaves me with only one choice for Q2:
https://www.musikding.de/2SB178-hFE120-130_1

And these for Q1:
https://www.musikding.de/GT2307-hFE70-80_1
https://www.musikding.de/GT308-hFE70-80_1
https://www.musikding.de/MP16-hFE70-80_1
https://www.musikding.de/2SB178-hFE70-80_1

Are there other reputable, trustworthy shops in Europe that sell 'selected' ge transistors for a Fuzz face?

[Steben]

Thanks Mac.
Excluding all AC's from the shops above it leaves me with only one choice for Q2:
https://www.musikding.de/2SB178-hFE120-130_1

And these for Q1:
https://www.musikding.de/GT2307-hFE70-80_1
https://www.musikding.de/GT308-hFE70-80_1
https://www.musikding.de/MP16-hFE70-80_1
https://www.musikding.de/2SB178-hFE70-80_1

Are there other reputable, trustworthy shops in Europe that sell 'selected' ge transistors for a Fuzz face?

banzai?

https://www.banzaimusic.com/Transistors-matched-selected/

[diydave]

Build a few ff's with ge-transistors from you're list of sources.
All sounded quite good in my ear 

I would not exclude them totally.
Trail & error + mix & match.

[j_flanders]

banzai?

https://www.banzaimusic.com/Transistors-matched-selected/

first post:
https://www.banzaimusic.com/Transistors-matched-selected/

Those were my first choice originally but then I started reading about them and read AnalogMike's post over here, saying that no original Fuzz Face ever used AC128's and not ever did he come across AC128's that sounded any good, so I discarded them.

Where does the ac128 myth actually originate?

[italianguy63]

I've had great success with Russian GE's.  Search the forum for "Russian trannies" from a couple years ago... some great data and discussion in there.

MC

[j_flanders]

I've had great success with Russian GE's. 

Where in Europe can I order them (and be sure the seller correctly checks for hfe and leakage?)

[italianguy63]

I've had great success with Russian GE's. 

Where in Europe can I order them (and be sure the seller correctly checks for hfe and leakage?)

They won't do HFE and leakage.  Find the article I wrote and there is a chart in there of the typical values.

I have always gotten mine on FleaBay... always out of E. Europe.  Usually Bulgaria, Romania, or USSR.  I've had great success with them.

[italianguy63]

Here.. look at this:

https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=117061.0

[Steben]

Where does the ac128 myth actually originate?

Well ...
They simply were used...

The original versions of the Fuzz Face were equipped with PNP Germanium transistors. There were at least three types used: NKT275, AC128, and SFT363E. These three transistors are quite hard to come by these days.

Today we "choose our materials" and want a very good fuzz.
Original fuzz faces sounded different. There is this story that Hendrix tried some pedals and choose the good one. Probably that one had good trannies.

And sometimes you see Silicon fuzzes popping up that soudn fantastic. Silicon is reliable, gain selected, low leakage.

[j_flanders]

These are the posts I was referring to:

AC128

No

(imho)

The only fuzzface to ever use an AC128 is the terrible grey UK made reissue, and of those about 30% had at least one transistor installed upside down. Including the one pictured in the manual/sales flyer! But the sound was so bad it made little difference which way the trans were installed so they were not caught by the builder.

You will get much better tone with the small bear generics than any AC128 that I have ever tested.

Have fun!

maybe I was a little tough on AC128s for 2 reasons:

1) the misunderstanding that they were often used in the original pedals in the 60s (so far zero out of a few hundred germanium fuzzfaces I and my friends have seen have had AC128s)

2) all the AC128s I bought from several ebay and non ebay sources, and all the ones I pulled from over one hundred reissue UK made arbiter england fuzzfaces sound terrible and have poor specs. I lost a lot of money buying these. And I thought IF there were any good ones available in the UK, then the company making the the reissue fuzzfaces in the UK would be using the good ones.

have fun and be fuzzy!!!

[duck_arse]

Ivan, at diy-tubes.com, in russia. if you ask him nicely, tell him what you want, and he might select some trannies for you. he has some goood stuff.

[j_flanders]

Ivan, at diy-tubes.com, in russia. if you ask him nicely, tell him what you want, and he might select some trannies for you. he has some goood stuff.

Thanks! It's not in Europe but the shipping cost is very reasonable and his transistors are cheap and he has a nice selection. And he seems to test for hfe and leakage. Definitely going to order from him when the shop reopens next week.

[Electric Warrior]

These should bias in the right ballpark in a stock circuit:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/AC122-grun-Germanium-Transistor-PNP-SI/312587513598?hash=item48c7aaeefe:g:Fv0AAOSwf69cXHj1

[Steben]

Ivan, at diy-tubes.com, in russia. if you ask him nicely, tell him what you want, and he might select some trannies for you. he has some goood stuff.

J201 for 0.5$ !!!!!!

[mac]

Thanks Mac.
Excluding all AC's from the shops above it leaves me with only one choice for Q2:
https://www.musikding.de/2SB178-hFE120-130_1

I don't know if those 178 are part of the 172-175-176 family.
I found this Matsushita 2sb178 (n)

https://m.donberg.ie/descript/2/2sb_178.htm

mac

[j_flanders]

I don't know if those 178 are part of the 172-175-176 family.
I found this Matsushita 2sb178 (n)

https://m.donberg.ie/descript/2/2sb_178.htm

mac

I have/had my doubts as well. When I come accross ge transistors I look them up over here. I get many hits for the 172-175's for FF's and only a few for 178's... So, they didn't seem like typical FF transistors. Although, I don't know if there such a thing as 'typical FF transistors"

[Electric Warrior]

Well.. Arbiter only used NKT275s back in the day from what we know. I'd say they must be fairly typical. 

[mac]

I'd like to get some nkt275 to compare with japs, but I've never seen one of those here.
Lots of Matsushitas, Toshiba, Sanyo and Hitachi, ACxxx, AFxxx and ADxxx in my country.

I forgot to mention Sanyo 2sd72.

mac