Output jack Lug help!

[DJPsychic]

Hey there,

Got pretty far in this build, the circuit board tested on bread board and works, but once I plug in for real all hell breaks loose. I think the build is has some error.

The author lays out the lug positions (first pic), but then in the later pics, he points to the outer as inner when connecting DC (pg. 31), I think.

I've included link to build, I don't know if my screenshots are clear enough.

I think my issue is I have the wires grounded on the wrong lug, but instructions say inner, (pg. 30) but in pics seem to be grounded on Center.

I hope this question wasn't as confusing as the instructions.


https://www.premierguitar.com/ext/resources/files/DIY-PDFs/Oct14_PGDistortion_BuildGuide_Final_R2.pdf

[willienillie]

You mean input jack, don't you?

[DJPsychic]

You mean input jack, don't you?

Yes, but my confusion is the wording I guess. This is my first build, and I'm unfamiliar with a lot of this. Here's the instruction on ground wires.

"I recommend uniting them at the input jack's
inner lug because it's a big, easy-to-solder hole. You must
connect three wires here: the black ground wire from the
perf board, the black ground wire from the A100K volume
pot, and a third short wire connecting this input jack lug
to the footswitch's center lug (to complete the LED ground
connection)."





But ground wires appear to be attached to "middle lug" not "inner lug.

And then then:

"Finally, solder the wire from the DC jack's negative lug to the
center lug of the input jack."

But photo seems to be pointing the "DC" on "Inner" Lug

[willienillie]

The jack in your first picture is not the same as the one in your second post.  Which one is yours?

Do you know what tip, ring, and sleeve are on a stereo plug and jack?  You can look at how the jack is constructed and see which lug connects to which contact.  Ground (sleeve) is very obvious with this type of open jack.  Tip is signal, and ring is for the battery negative, so that it disconnects the battery when you pull the plug.

[DJPsychic]

The jack in your first picture is not the same as the one in your second post.  Which one is yours?

Do you know what tip, ring, and sleeve are on a stereo plug and jack?  You can look at how the jack is constructed and see which lug connects to which contact.  Ground (sleeve) is very obvious with this type of open jack.  Tip is signal, and ring is for the battery negative, so that it disconnects the battery when you pull the plug.

The one you added text to (1st) is mine. I just sent as reference.

The 2nd post is from the website. I’m pointing out what was confusing me and and asking for some clarity. The instructions don’t seem to match the photos

[DJPsychic]

The jack in your first picture is not the same as the one in your second post.  Which one is yours?

Do you know what tip, ring, and sleeve are on a stereo plug and jack?  You can look at how the jack is constructed and see which lug connects to which contact.  Ground (sleeve) is very obvious with this type of open jack.  Tip is signal, and ring is for the battery negative, so that it disconnects the battery when you pull the plug.

Let me try and clarify. Again I Apologize, first time

The build says connect all the grounds to "inner lug" of input jack.

Then it says connect DC Negative  to "Center" Lug, but in picture is attached to what you've labelled "signal"

I'm just trying to figure out where I'm supposed to actually attach DC Negative

And where to attach all the grounds which is described here:

connect three wires here: the black ground wire from the
perf board, the black ground wire from the A100K volume
pot, and a third short wire connecting this input jack lug
to the footswitch's center lug (to complete the LED ground
connection). Cut a short length


Yellow text in photo below is from the build. I wrote in red



Here is photo of instruction to attach DC Neg to "Middle"

[DIY Bass]

Do this.  It should help you visualise what is going on.  Take a standard guitar cable and look at it.  There is a bit at the tip which carries the signal.  There is then a thin coloured (usually black) insulating band.  Then there is a large barrel that is ground.  Insert that lead into your jack socket.  The tip will make contact with one of the contacts in there.  Because you are using an open style socket, you will be able to tell which solder lug is connected to the tip of your lead.  Solder the signal wire there.  The barrel for your lead will make contact with a lug, and also with a metal sleeve in the very centre of the socket.  The ground wire from your DC socket solders to the lug that makes contact with the barrel.  All the other ground connections solder to the lug that is connected to the inner sleeve that also makes contact with the barrel of the lead.  That is what Willie has drawn on the picture above.  If you solder all the connections as he has shown (rather than how it currently is) then it should work.

[DJPsychic]

Do this.  It should help you visualise what is going on.  Take a standard guitar cable and look at it.  There is a bit at the tip which carries the signal.  There is then a thin coloured (usually black) insulating band.  Then there is a large barrel that is ground.  Insert that lead into your jack socket.  The tip will make contact with one of the contacts in there.  Because you are using an open style socket, you will be able to tell which solder lug is connected to the tip of your lead.  Solder the signal wire there.  The barrel for your lead will make contact with a lug, and also with a metal sleeve in the very centre of the socket.  The ground wire from your DC socket solders to the lug that makes contact with the barrel.  All the other ground connections solder to the lug that is connected to the inner sleeve that also makes contact with the barrel of the lead.  That is what Willie has drawn on the picture above.  If you solder all the connections as he has shown (rather than how it currently is) then it should work.

Ok, starting to understand. I'm just confused by the builds instructions. And still learning all the technical jargin. I literally just bought a soldering iron and went to work with no prior experience at all.

Accroding to the build, he has audio signal coming from Willy's "Battery Negative" > Foot Switch > Output Jack   (below)



Then he has Perf Board Negative, A100k Volume Pot and Footswitch Grounded on Willy's "Ground" (below)



And finally DC Jack to Willy's "Signal" (below)



Another confusing direction during grounding is this:

"The ground connections:

All ground wires in a circuit must be linked for the circuit
to function, though it doesn’t matter exactly where they
connect. I recommend uniting them at the input jack’s
inner lug because it’s a big, easy-to-solder hole. You must
connect three wires here: the black ground wire from the
perf board, the black ground wire from the A100K volume
pot, and a third short wire connecting this input jack lug
to the footswitch’s center lug (to complete the LED ground
connection).

Cut a short length of black wire and solder one end to
the footswitch’s top-center lug.

Connect the other end of this wire to the footswitch’s
inner lug, along with the ground wire from the perf board
and the wire from the volume pot’s lug 1. (If I’d been more
on the ball, I’d have used black wire here as a visual aid.)
Solder them all together"



"Footswitch inner lug" I think this is a Typo, I think he means Input Jack.

And "Top-Center", not sure if he means the input jack again or waht.... I don't know.

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to get this right.

And thank you Willy for drawing the diagram I appreciate your time and input!

[bluebunny]

I think we're getting there thanks to help from willie and DIY.  I believe the biggest problem is their utterly confusing "inner lug, middle lug" terminology.    These mean nothing.  As suggested, take a moment to put a (stereo) jack plug into your socket and see where each part of the plug connects to which lug on the socket.  Use your DMM to help.

Connecting all your ground connections in a single place is generally good practice, though not really necessary in something like a guitar pedal.  The screen lug on a jack socket is indeed convenient, though you may find it difficult to put all your wires (likely four or five) into a single lug.  Use both jacks and make it a little easier for yourself (and remember to connect them together, of course!).  Many of my recent build shots show just such a strategy.

Edit: Check out tonepad's wiring diagrams.  I've been using them forever and they're very clear.  #5 is probably most relevant for you.

[willienillie]

The input jack in the acticle has the mirror image "pinout" of the one you're using.  Different manufacturers.  Yours is the better one BTW, an American-made Switchcraft.  The one in the article is a cheap knockoff (which probably still works fine).

[DJPsychic]

Cool. I took it out of another DIY pedal I bought out of the dollar bin at a guitar shop. I've soldered and desoldered it a million times, hopefully still ok.

I actually tried a fresh one I ordered off amazon, might need to sand the lugs a little bit.

[DJPsychic]

I think we're getting there thanks to help from willie and DIY.  I believe the biggest problem is their utterly confusing "inner lug, middle lug" terminology.    These mean nothing.  As suggested, take a moment to put a (stereo) jack plug into your socket and see where each part of the plug connects to which lug on the socket.  Use your DMM to help.

Connecting all your ground connections in a single place is generally good practice, though not really necessary in something like a guitar pedal.  The screen lug on a jack socket is indeed convenient, though you may find it difficult to put all your wires (likely four or five) into a single lug.  Use both jacks and make it a little easier for yourself (and remember to connect them together, of course!).  Many of my recent build shots show just such a strategy.

Edit: Check out tonepad's wiring diagrams.  I've been using them forever and they're very clear.  #5 is probably most relevant for you.

Haha yeah we're getting somewhere!

"Screen Jack" ok now I'm even more confused lol. And when you say "use Both" are you referring to ground and one of the audio lugs? Like split the ground wires between the two?

[willienillie]

I've soldered and desoldered it a million times, hopefully still ok.

You can't hurt a Switchcraft with a soldering iron.

I actually tried a fresh one I ordered off amazon

Now that one might have a different pinout than the Switchcraft.  If it's "open" style, you should still be able to see what lug does goes where.  If you're sanding the lugs, it's probably because they're chrome plated, and definitely not a Switchcraft.

[bluebunny]

"Screen Jack" ok now I'm even more confused lol. And when you say "use Both" are you referring to ground and one of the audio lugs? Like split the ground wires between the two?

Screen lug, not screen jack.

Here's an example of what I meant:



All the ground connections are made with green wire.  The tonepad diagram implies that the ground leads from the DC jack, the board, the switch and the output jack (four wires) all go to the screen lug on the input jack.  Because that can be a bit tight, I sent the board ground and switch ground connections to the output jack, and the DC ground went to the input jack.  The two jacks are then connected with a further wire of course.

[willienillie]

^ Some possible confusion with various terms used to describe the same thing.  Marc is using "screen" and "ground" interchangeably.  He is obviously British, and uses some different terms than I do (American).  Brits say "windscreen" for what we call a "windshield" here.  Similarly, he's saying the "screen lug" because it connects to the chassis, which acts as an electronic shield.  I just say ground.  Working on vacuum tube ("valve") equipment, you definitely don't want to connect "screen" anything to ground!

[DJPsychic]

^ Some possible confusion with various terms used to describe the same thing.  Marc is using "screen" and "ground" interchangeably.  He is obviously British, and uses some different terms than I do (American).  Brits say "windscreen" for what we call a "windshield" here.  Similarly, he's saying the "screen lug" because it connects to the chassis, which acts as an electronic shield.  I just say ground.  Working on vacuum tube ("valve") equipment, you definitely don't want to connect "screen" anything to ground!

Haha yes, I am also from the US, so was getting Even more confused. I think I understand now. never heard screen before, good to know!

[tubegeek]

"screen" UK = "shield" US

Those words properly refer to the braided or foil layer inside a cable that screens/shields the signal wire within. (There are also other applications of "screening" aka "shielding" which have nothing to do with cables and jacks.) "Screen"/"shield" almost always connects to "ground" US = "earth" UK and confusingly all four terms are used more or less interchangeably. This diagram of various jack configurations may help or it may just add confusion. If it adds confusion ignore it. The top two are TS (tip-sleeve, often called "mono") and TRS (tip-ring-sleeve, often called "stereo") - these are Switchcraft 11 and 12B, respectively.


If you plug a TS plug, such as is almost always used for guitar cables, into a TRS jack, you get an interesting behavior: the plug tip connects to the jack's tip, and the plug sleeve connects to BOTH the jack's sleeve and its ring, shorting the two together and simultaneously making the proper connection for the plug's sleeve. A VERY common stomp-box connection is to wire the power so that it isn't grounded until a plug is inserted to short R and S together, preserving the battery when no plug is inserted.

The S (sleeve) connection is typically bolted to a metal box which shields the circuit from radio interference. So the sleeve and shield and screen are again, somewhat interchangeably used and are usually connected together somehow. Plus they all begin with "S" - which is good if you're trying to remember how they connect, and bad if you're trying to remember what the differences are.

IF YOUR JACK LOOSENS UP, THEN THE SLEEVE CONNECTIONS ARE NOT RELIABLE, so often a wire is connected between input and output jacks to make sure there is no big problem if the jacks loosen up.

Ancient telephone company technology.

[DJPsychic]

"screen" UK = "shield" US

Those words properly refer to the braided or foil layer inside a cable that screens/shields the signal wire within. (There are also other applications of "screening" aka "shielding" which have nothing to do with cables and jacks.) "Screen"/"shield" almost always connects to "ground" US = "earth" UK and confusingly all four terms are used more or less interchangeably. This diagram of various jack configurations may help or it may just add confusion. If it adds confusion ignore it. The top two are TS (tip-sleeve, often called "mono") and TRS (tip-ring-sleeve, often called "stereo") - these are Switchcraft 11 and 12B, respectively.


If you plug a TS plug, such as is almost always used for guitar cables, into a TRS jack, you get an interesting behavior: the plug tip connects to the jack's tip, and the plug sleeve connects to BOTH the jack's sleeve and its ring, shorting the two together and simultaneously making the proper connection for the plug's sleeve. A VERY common stomp-box connection is to wire the power so that it isn't grounded until a plug is inserted to short R and S together, preserving the battery when no plug is inserted.

The S (sleeve) connection is typically bolted to a metal box which shields the circuit from radio interference. So the sleeve and shield and screen are again, somewhat interchangeably used and are usually connected together somehow. Plus they all begin with "S" - which is good if you're trying to remember how they connect, and bad if you're trying to remember what the differences are.

IF YOUR JACK LOOSENS UP, THEN THE SLEEVE CONNECTIONS ARE NOT RELIABLE, so often a wire is connected between input and output jacks to make sure there is no big problem if the jacks loosen up.

Ancient telephone company technology.

Excellent thank you for the explanation! I love ancient telephone technology 

[DJPsychic]

So I figured it all out, than you everyone for trying to help me weed through the info. I really do appreciate it. Willy, you diagram is correct, not sure what the builder had in mind but you were correct.

Here's my ugly little stompbox!

i know the messy wiring and beat up enclosure is probably driving some of you nuts, but it's my first one. It's switches on and makes noise! 

Once I figure out how to share a demo, I will.

Thanks again, on to the next project!

[DJPsychic]

Here's an updated version of the pedal (for anyone that cares)

I'm terrible at guitar but here's a quick little demo.

It's dialed way back. Volume doesn't really kick in til about 2/3 turn, and the "Gain" is pretty gnarly. So I have volume at about 9, Gain at about 1.5. Still has a little sweet spot IMO. Hey it's my first pedal!