Recapping Boss Pedals Help

[powerheaad]

Hi to everyone. I have Boss SD-1, CE-2 and CS2 pedals (81,85 and 86 models). I have a question about the capacitors of old Boss pedals first. Some of them are film capacitors(metallized i think but no idea if they are polyester or Polypropylene) and later ones are polyester. Do you have any idea or knowledge about why they changed the caps?



Does anyone know the original brand or type of the OLDER capacitors?

I want to recap them but i'm stucked with 2 models. Panasonic ECQ and ECW which one i should choose? The metallized polyester or metallized Polypropylene? The tolerance is important?
And do i need to change the electrolytic capacitors? If i do the audio grade ones, standart ones or the low esr ones?

I don't want any sound change but i just only want to make them original as the first production ones.(less hum)

I'm waiting for your advices.
Thank you.

[GibsonGM]

Here's some good news (Hope you didn't start yet!)  the ONLY caps you need to change after many year are the electrolytics!!  The gel inside them dries up over time.   If the poly's aren't broke, don't fix 'em, I say! 

I'm not a connoisseur of caps.  I don't think you'll see any difference, as long as the ones in there are not croaking yet.   I would use any reasonably decent well-regarded caps, you can get 'em at Small Bear electric or Mouser etc.  Sprague or other good brands are fine.    Not sure that will result in any less hum, tho...it's just routine maintenance!  Can't hurt if you do it carefully, if it's been 20+ years since the pedals were made.   I tend to wait n see on pedals, til there are problems (I'm lazy in that respect).  Never had any, really.   Amps I will do in maybe 12, 15 years from manufacture.

Welcome to the forum, Powerhead!

[Slowpoke101]

Welcome to the forum. It's fun here...

Usually when you hear about "recapping" a pedal, particularly a Boss pedal, they are referring to replacing the electrolytic capacitors only. Electros "age" over time even when not being used. Some pedals can run at a fairly high internal temperature (such as the Boss DD-2 delay ). This heat can accelerate the aging process. Film capacitors generally do not suffer badly from aging effects but can fail (as do most things ) intermittently.
Boss (owned by Roland ) used quite a few different types of capacitors (and other parts )from various suppliers. Why? - to buy from the cheapest supplier of course. Normal practice.

When replacing the electrolytics just use parts of the correct value, suitable voltage range and that will fit. Electros also can be supplied to handle higher operating temperature ranges - use the 105 degree types (cheap and easily obtained ). There is no advantage to using the low ESR range electros in most pedals unless it has a DC/DC converter in it or some odd voltage reference stability requirement.


Ahh, I see that GibsonGM has already replied with some good advice too.

[powerheaad]

Thanks for advices. Actually its kinda obsession(about recapping film caps). And most of the boutique pedals have metallized caps (quality) so i want to recap them.
The electrolytic ones first i thought about elna silmics but i was afraid of changing the sound.

[willienillie]

The green "chicklet" caps are usually (or always?) mylar aka polyester.  I think I've seen some branded Matsushita in older Japanese pedals, but I'm going from memory.  As others have said, there's NO need to change any of those unless one is bad, which is rare.  Definitely not a bad idea to change out the electros, but you don't need anything special.  I don't even know what "audio grade" means, it might be nothing but marketing hype.  I wouldn't even worry about 105^oC caps, unless it's a tube pedal, the standard 85^o rating should be WELL over anything the cap will ever see.

[Slowpoke101]

If you want to replace the film caps then do so. It will not hurt anything other than your bank balance and the pedals may sound better anyway. I personally use WIMA box type film capacitors and some older Panasonic polyester types. I avoid polypropylene (also called Tropical Fish caps ) mainly due to the price and size. The Elna Silmic caps will probably make no difference to the overall sound quality but try them if you want to.
But it comes down to this - they are your pedals and if you want to replace parts in them then there is nothing to stop you from doing so. It may alter their resale value should you wish to sell them later. However, please keep us informed as to your progress with the upgrades and what differences you note as to their sound quality.

[PRR]

> why they changed the caps?

They were using 1-penny caps, but some distributor offered 0.9-penny caps?

Most of this stuff was assembled from the *absolute lowest cost* parts. In a neighborhood full of surplus and overstock dealers. The Nike-XYZ missile project changed the navigation controller? RCA dropped the R-632 TV chassis production? All those excess parts ended up on Radio Row in NYC, and E-H's Mike shopped for the best deals.

OOppps- BOSS was not in NYC. And not really a lowest-cost builder. But the Japanese market also has its odd pricing and strange customs. Maybe the nephew of BOSS's purchasing manager started a capacitor company, and got the deal to supply caps to BOSS.

And yes, film-caps on 9V never die (unless Mike found 0.3-penny caps rolled wrong). And until recent years nobody obsessed about "sound of caps".

[Rob Strand]

And yes, film-caps on 9V never die

I think I've only had two real film-cap failures.  One was a NE555 timing cap that went high resistance and sent the timing off.  The other was a zobel network cap on the output of a power amp.   Seen plenty of film caps in bad shape with cracks  in switch modes and CRT monitors though- heat being the problem.

Not much point replacing film caps.

[PRR]

> zobel network cap on the output of a power amp. ... switch modes and CRT monitors though

Not "9V" work. In "our" world, film won't die.

(It can, if it was wrapped badly, crushed in shipping, goosed by the soldering iron.... but anything can be killed somehow, even that haunted horse-doll in the bad horror-flick we saw last night.)

[ElectricDruid]

+1 agree with what others have said.

Don't waste your time replacing working film caps. You won't hear a difference, despite what "golden ears" on some forum told you. Electrolytics do age, but even then I probably wouldn't bother unless they're faulty. Old circuit boards aren't that robust and it's easy to overheat the board and lift pads and tracks trying to get stuff out that hasn't moved in thirty years.
If you choose to, buy any decent quality electrolytic (Panasonic, for example) with a somewhat-over-spec'd rating, but don't go crazy. "Audio grade" is marketing-speak for "overpriced for audiophiles who can't read specs well enough to see they're being ripped off". For the voltage rating in a 9V pedal, 16V is close, 25V is fine, 50V is great if you can get it for the same price, and >100V is pointless overkill. Similarly with temperature ratings - you're not going to play this pedal at 85C, let alone 125C, and if it got that hot inside the enclosure something else must be seriously wrong!

T.

[Rob Strand]

It can, if it was wrapped badly, crushed in shipping, goosed by the soldering iron.... but anything can be killed somehow, even that haunted horse-doll in the bad horror-flick we saw last night.

To be honest I believe my Zobel example could have been damage rather than failure.  It was a MOSFET Hi-Fi amp.  After building it I gave it an abusive test using my bass (and bass speaker).  When pushed one channel sounded *slightly* different to the other at lowish bias currents.  For HiFi stuff or high bias I couldn't hear the difference.    I could never find a problem, nothing got hot,  so I assumed the MOSFETs were slightly different on each channel.  Some years later the cap pooped out and after replacing it the two channels sounds the same!!!

[Ben N]

... but anything can be killed somehow, even that haunted horse-doll in the bad horror-flick we saw last night.)

Are you sure? Bwahahahahahaha!  Snort.

[ElectricDruid]

... but anything can be killed somehow, even that haunted horse-doll in the bad horror-flick we saw last night.)

Are you sure? Bwahahahahahaha!  Snort.

He's right, you know. You think it's dead and then there's...

THE SEQUEL!!

[vigilante397]

Actually its kinda obsession(about recapping film caps). And most of the boutique pedals have metallized caps (quality) so i want to recap them.

In line with what everyone else here has said, don't bother with anything but the electrolytics. Putting metallized caps in a Boss pedal does not make it a boutique pedal.

[amptramp]

There's a nice discussion of film capacitors here with the characteristics of various film types described:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_capacitor

But I concur with the others here who say any film cap should be OK.  One thing that might be good (if you have room for it) is to replace electrolytics in the signal path with film.  I have a stash of ten 10 µF 50 V film capacitors that are waiting to be assigned to tasks currently performed by electrolytics.

[GibsonGM]

There's a nice discussion of film capacitors here with the characteristics of various film types described:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_capacitor

But I concur with the others here who say any film cap should be OK.  One thing that might be good (if you have room for it) is to replace electrolytics in the signal path with film.  I have a stash of ten 10 µF 50 V film capacitors that are waiting to be assigned to tasks currently performed by electrolytics.

Ya....if you can find a big enough film type, get away from any electro's in the signal path for sure! 

[willienillie]

(if you have room for it)

Look for caps with words like "tiny" in the name, and you should have no problem fitting them in.

[Ben N]

With caps that big, you may not even need the battery. Just rub your shoes on the carpet a few times, and off you go! 

[bool]

If recapping, the most relevant would be electrolytics (Panasonic FR have a good bang/buck ratio) and ceramics (changing these for a modern C0G/NPO type wouldn't be a bad idea when you think about it).

I doubt you will gain much from changing poly caps; but you may try swapping the input cap for a Wima or some other "good" type (Vishay, Kemet etc..)

[Kevin Mitchell]

IMO - if the pedals aren't giving you any trouble I really don't see the point in replacing parts. Any improvements/changes would be subtle at best.

-KM