2 or 3 axis control pedal?

[Fancy Lime]

Quick question:

has anyone here built, experimented with or maybe just seriously thought about building a 2 or 3 axis foot control pedal? What I mean is this: A foot has 3 independent axes of rotation, "forward" (the normal Wah motion), "sideways" (tilting left and right, 90° to forward), and "around" (like a turntable). It is possible to construct a foot controller that allows all three motions and can thus control 3 completely independent parameters of a pedal. It's just that I have never seen it done, which seems odd, considering all the other awsome crazy $#!+ people do here. Not easy to do from scratch, especially when it is suposed to last longer than an afternoon but there is probably some kind of controller from an unrelated field that can be modified to suit our purpose?

Another possibility would be multiple proximity controls but those seem to be similarly tricky. Does anyone have a working design for one of those?

What would such a control be good for? I got the idea from the thread about formant filters. One could construct a 3-in-1 Wah that, properly designed and competently played (which is going to be crazy challenging but hey, playing guitar well isn't easy either), should sound very interestingly vocal. Not like human speach emulation but probably interesting, hopefully wandering the uncanny vally where you are never quite sure if it feels familiar or alien.

Cheers,
Andy

[Mark Hammer]

What you're looking for is essentially a foot-operated joystick.
Fender made a combo volume/tone control pedal in the '60s I think, where toe/heel down operate volume and tone was either operated by rocking side to side or swivelling the treadle left to right (I forget which).

At Summer NAMM last year, I saw a device called the Smashmouse ( http://smashmouseusa.com/ ) purporting to be a "universal controller", equivalent to a mouse/joystick, but my sense is that it was really intended for foot-controlled menu selection and MIDI-type commands rather than some sort of multi-dimensional CV or variable resistance.

I have one of those Source Audio Hot Hand wireless-controller devices, and it will put out 0-3.3V control voltages for any two of three dimensions/axes.  However, the motion detection really only applies to post-pick/post-strum gestures.  You can't really use it while you pick, the way you might use a wah or volume pedal.

I'm sure somebody most make a joystick assembly that will do what you want.  The question is whether it is amenable to some sort of foot chassis.

[Fancy Lime]

What you're looking for is essentially a foot-operated joystick.

Precisely.

The smashmouse seems like a step in the right direction. Bit plasticy but better than nothing.

Andy

[willienillie]

A foot has 3 independent axes of rotation, "forward" (the normal Wah motion), "sideways" (tilting left and right, 90° to forward), and "around" (like a turntable)

Pitch, roll, and yaw.

Oh, and use Hall Effect sensors.  This forum is seriously lacking in Hall Effect sensors.

[Fancy Lime]

A foot has 3 independent axes of rotation, "forward" (the normal Wah motion), "sideways" (tilting left and right, 90° to forward), and "around" (like a turntable)

Pitch, roll, and yaw.

Oh, and use Hall Effect sensors.  This forum is seriously lacking in Hall Effect sensors.

Hmm, a plate with a grid of Hall Effest sensors and a magnet in the shoe, huh? I've heard worse ideas. Need to go find me some Hall Effect sensors, I do.

Andy

[EBK]

Perhaps pause to think what a simultaneous pitch/roll/yaw setting would look and feel like for your foot.

[paul.creedy]

http://www.dbinstrumentamp.com/products/4e-dual-axis-expression-pedal/

or

http://www.nime.org/proceedings/2018/nime2018_paper0057.pdf

[MaxPower]

Have been thinking about using joysticks. Actually a games controller; as a possible controller for synthesizers, not for guitar/foot use.

How about mini joysticks affixed to your toes? And maybe tilt switches as well.

[ElectricDruid]

There are industrial 3-axis joysticks which might be ok for a starter. They're not cheap. The problem as ever will be the mechanical side - making this into something robust enough to be "foot operated" (AKA stamped on).

Nice idea though. What would you do with the three axis control? With two axes, I might have filter frequency and resonance control...but I'm a synth guy, so that's always going to be my first thought. Something more imaginative would be nice.

[digi2t]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.soundonsound.com/reviews/keith-mcmillen-softstep%3famp

[Mark Hammer]

If a person wanted to make a 2-axis foot-controller, maybe force-sensing resistors would be suitable candidates?  One pair for left-right and another for forwad-backward.

[stallik]

Didn't fender use a 2 axis arrangement on their wah/fuzz back in the 70's?

[Ben N]

That Smashmouse thing looks very useful for a lot of things (Music page turner?) , but alas the kickstarter failed.

[patrick398]

This thread reminded me of the 'Ucreate Music' i bought years ago, pretty insane little toys but had a pretty nifty (though nasty plastic) ball like thing with which you changed the sound of the effects. If there was a way of making the same thing with more robust materials it would be a cool little controller

[ElectricDruid]

This thread reminded me of the 'Ucreate Music' i bought years ago, pretty insane little toys but had a pretty nifty (though nasty plastic) ball like thing with which you changed the sound of the effects. If there was a way of making the same thing with more robust materials it would be a cool little controller

A oversized mouse-ball-type controller might be the way to go. Those usually use rubber wheels contacting the ball surface with slotted wheels and optical LED/phototransistor slot readers to detect how fast the wheel is moving. A typical mouse only has sensors for the X and Y directions obviously, but it wouldn't be too hard to add one for rotation too. What we're talking about then would be a foot-operated 3-axis tracker ball.

Perhaps a *bit* like this:

https://vimeo.com/69113731

But if you want an off-the-shelf option:

https://www.my-ipc.com/mw/detail-6/uk/Z-Range+3-axis+LASER+TRACKBALLS+38+mm+laser+trackball-1489.html#/detail.php?identifiantId=1489&lang=uk&pmenu=6

[willienillie]

Hmm, a plate with a grid of Hall Effest sensors and a magnet in the shoe, huh?

No, not that at all.  Unless your last name is Vex maybe.  I was thinking still mechanical axes, but with HE sensors/magnets in place of pots, for your voltage-controlled whatsits.

[Fancy Lime]

If a person wanted to make a 2-axis foot-controller, maybe force-sensing resistors would be suitable candidates?  One pair for left-right and another for forwad-backward.

Yeah, I thought about that one a bit. We can even make that have 3 independent controls with 3 force sensing resistors in a triangle under a plate. In such an arrangement we have one more degree of freedom (replacing the yaw) than with two rocking motions because we can also use the total force, not just the relative forces along two axes. The problem is, that delivering a well controlled *force* with something as clumsy as a foot is a lot harder than controlling an angle or a rocking pedal. Which is hard enough, especially with more than one axis. So, probably worth a try to use force sensitive resistors but it will be challenging to use.

Andy

[Fancy Lime]

Hmm, a plate with a grid of Hall Effest sensors and a magnet in the shoe, huh?

No, not that at all.  Unless your last name is Vex maybe.  I was thinking still mechanical axes, but with HE sensors/magnets in place of pots, for your voltage-controlled whatsits.

Hmm, yeah, that makes more sense, now that you spell it out. i may be too eager to always jump to the most difficult option...

Andy

[Fancy Lime]

This thread reminded me of the 'Ucreate Music' i bought years ago, pretty insane little toys but had a pretty nifty (though nasty plastic) ball like thing with which you changed the sound of the effects. If there was a way of making the same thing with more robust materials it would be a cool little controller

A oversized mouse-ball-type controller might be the way to go. Those usually use rubber wheels contacting the ball surface with slotted wheels and optical LED/phototransistor slot readers to detect how fast the wheel is moving. A typical mouse only has sensors for the X and Y directions obviously, but it wouldn't be too hard to add one for rotation too. What we're talking about then would be a foot-operated 3-axis tracker ball.

Perhaps a *bit* like this:

https://vimeo.com/69113731

But if you want an off-the-shelf option:

https://www.my-ipc.com/mw/detail-6/uk/Z-Range+3-axis+LASER+TRACKBALLS+38+mm+laser+trackball-1489.html#/detail.php?identifiantId=1489&lang=uk&pmenu=6

Hmm, a trackball is an option I had not thought about. the off-the-shelf option, however is a *bit* on the pricey side for a diy pedal, no? But as a universal controller with three control voltage outputs that may actually be quite awesome. Need to think about this.

Andy

[willienillie]

Here's what you do.  Buy an F-16 (used, to save a little $$).  Pull out the %^&*pit, discard the rest.  You get a force-sensing 2-axis side stick, two rudder pedals w/ toe brakes (3 axes), a single-axis throttle with two detent positions, dozens of switches, buttons, and knobs, and two or three multi-function displays (MFDs), depending on the block.  With thoughtful rewiring, you can use it to control your entire pedalboard.

But wait, now you have no limbs or digits left over to play the guitar.  You're gonna need a second person.  So here's what you do.  Buy an F-16B or D...