How to ground "properly"?

[EBK]

I need as many buzzwords on the feature list as I can have

Don't forget the silver solder and oxygen-free copper wire. Is it true bypass?  Print that on the enclosure next to the stomp switch.   

[ ]
Edit: I've started rambling again.   

Don't stop rambling! This is the kind of thread for that 

In that case, consider this:
Zero ground loops is good, and one ground loop is bad, right?  What if you were to intentionally add a ton more ground loops, in every possible place in your circuit, allowing ground loops in parallel with other ground loops, allowing wires to run in every direction, etc.  Would the impedances essentially approach an ideal 0 ohms and all induced noise essentially cancel out, meaning having an infinite number of ground loops is really the same as having zero ground loops? 

[Fancy Lime]

You betcha it's true bypass! I don't really like that but like I said, everything for the mojo. Plus, it is going to be an always on kind of pedal anyway. I am considering not having a foot switch but a heavy duty toggle for bypass. Less convenient, more old-timey

If I put all non-ground metal parts in shrink wrap, I could flood the whole box with mercury. 3D ground pour, literally! Would that be a safety hazard, ya think? Unfortunately then I cannot see the circuit any more. Or I could goop the whole circuit before pouring the mercury. Nothing like a gooped copy of an age old, ultra simple circuit when were hunting for mojo.

Cheers,
Andy

P.S. Disclaimer and public service announcement, just in case someone reading this did not get it: The mercury thing is a joke. DO NOT HANDLE MERCURY unless you have a good reason to do so and the training and facilities to do it safely! Certainly don't put it in a stompbox.

[antonis]

DO NOT HANDLE MERCURY unless you have a good reason to do so

Should ULTIMATE GND be considered as "good" enough reason..??

[Fancy Lime]

DO NOT HANDLE MERCURY unless you have a good reason to do so

Should ULTIMATE GND be considered as "good" enough reason..??

I would not think so.

[idy]

Mojo: mercury switch bypass.

[Fancy Lime]

Mojo: mercury switch bypass.

That is the coolest idea ever! Did not think of that. Without having done any research on it, I would guess these things are a little difficult to come by today in most jurisdictions... "Full Tilt Boost" has a nice ring to it, no? Has anyone ever used any kind of tilt switch for a pedal? Not super convenient to integrate into a pedal board but certainly unique.

Andy

[GFR]

I'm not an EE so shouldn't answer.
Merlin may be an EE, he wrote this...
http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/Grounding.pdf

The guidelines in this article are easy to follow and the results are great.

[duck_arse]

proper? that's not me - I'll leave that for someone else. unresonable and unhelpful? well, let me tell you .....

I get coax, 52 Ohm, cut to length-ish, and strip the guts from the sheath, then strip the guts from the screen. then get some brass telescoping antenna tube sections, 10 or so mm long. put the tubes over the ends of the coax braid, fold back the shaggy ends, then push a short length of the outer sleeve back over the end, to hold all in place and insulate.

do this all twice, cause you have an in and an out jack. run a ground and a signal for each jack thru the braid, connect the grounds at the jack and run it past the footswitch and to the board, so one ground wire for in and one ground wire for out. I usually wrap the ground around the appropos wire from the footswitch to the board, to keep it all 'neat'.

of course, you've also added a heavy tinned copper wire drain/strain wire, soldered to one of the jack grounds and wrapped around the two braids, which are also spot soldered near the ends, after forming to shape, to keep it all 'neat'. and then run the two wires from the DC in socket, wrap around the bundled braids, for neatness.

it goes without saying the jacks are in electrical contact w/ the case metal via thier mountings. and sometimes, I'll also add a ground wire from the circuit board to a pot body or a mounting screw, you know, just cause. then your wooden sides don't matter for noise so much.

some of my posted build pics shows this method; probably doesn't convey the sheer stupidity and wasting of time involved, tho.

[Phend]

On another area inside most effects, Question should the pots housing be grounded?
(Consider that none of the three connections on the pot are soldered/connected to the housing and the pot is not attached to a conductive "box")

[EBK]

On another area inside most effects, Question should the pots housing be grounded?
(Consider that none of the three connections on the pot are soldered/connected to the housing and the pot is not attached to a conductive "box")

I'm of the opinion that you should never solder a wire to the housing of a pot.  It takes an outrageous amount of heat to make that connection stick, and the benefits won't outweigh the potential for damage.

[ElectricDruid]

On another area inside most effects, Question should the pots housing be grounded?
(Consider that none of the three connections on the pot are soldered/connected to the housing and the pot is not attached to a conductive "box")

How is the pot "not attached to a conductive box"? The typical 16mm Alpha pots I use have a metal body which is pushed through the aluminium enclosure (which is grounded) and are then screwed down tight to that enclosure, thus making contact both in the hole and on the back of the enclosure between the pot body and the aluminium. We'll ignore the front because I generally painted that. Hence the pot is shielded.

I totally agree with EBK that trying to solder wires to pot bodies is likely to cause more problems than benefits.

[slashandburn]

On another area inside most effects, Question should the pots housing be grounded?
(Consider that none of the three connections on the pot are soldered/connected to the housing and the pot is not attached to a conductive "box")

How is the pot "not attached to a conductive box"? The typical 16mm Alpha pots I use have a metal body which is pushed through the aluminium enclosure (which is grounded) and are then screwed down tight to that enclosure, thus making contact both in the hole and on the back of the enclosure between the pot body and the aluminium. We'll ignore the front because I generally painted that. Hence the pot is shielded.

I totally agree with EBK that trying to solder wires to pot bodies is likely to cause more problems than benefits.

IIRC at some point previously OP mentioned they'd be using plastic jack sockets exclusively.

I do agree with you though. To hell with trying to solder direct to a diecast aluminium box. I'd rather drill a hole and screw in a big ground lug. Or just use a metal jack socket and save myself the extra work.

[Phend]

"How is the pot "not attached to a conductive box"?

For instance a pot hanging off a bread board.
Or a wooden enclosure.
I agree about soldering to a pot as a not so good an idea.
See 70's muff fuzz (purchased) photo.
The diodes are soldered on the back of the volume pot as well as the cap and battery lead.

[intripped]

mmm... what about background noise?
is there a chance that doing a star ground it would be reduced at minimum?

[amptramp]

If I put all non-ground metal parts in shrink wrap, I could flood the whole box with mercury. 3D ground pour, literally! Would that be a safety hazard, ya think? Unfortunately then I cannot see the circuit any more. Or I could goop the whole circuit before pouring the mercury. Nothing like a gooped copy of an age old, ultra simple circuit when were hunting for mojo.

You could call your pedal company "Amalgamated Pedals" and mean it.

On another area inside most effects, Question should the pots housing be grounded?
(Consider that none of the three connections on the pot are soldered/connected to the housing and the pot is not attached to a conductive "box")

On page 16 of the guitar pictures thread I have a Cort guitar where the ground connections were to have a lug of each pot soldered by a short wire to the back of the pot and all pots mounted to an aluminum foil shield that was the ground connection.  Soldering a ground wire from pot to pot then to the output jack and from the pickups to the ground point on the nearest pot made an enormous difference to the sound.  Don't try to use the back of the pot to the front of the pot crimped connection as a ground and certainly not a connection to foil - that is a noise problem waiting to happen.

[Phend]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity)?

I am not an expert, but I might say that inside a basic effect,  ground loops are not a problem but when multiple effects are connected then ground looping may need to be considered.
There is a lot in the above link, must say I won't be hitting the ground running.

[soggybag]

I've seen pedals use a sort battery jack with a spring soldered to the PCB so that the spring presses agains the interior wall of the enclosure.

I've also seen a washer with ground wire attached over a pot on the inside of the case.

Soldering a wire to the enclosure sounds more trouble than it's worth.

How do you attach those plastic jacks do you drill wide enough to fit the diameter of the ring on the body and use the plastic washers or drill smaller so the body of the jack presses against the interior of the enclosure without the washers?

[ElectricDruid]

How do you attach those plastic jacks do you drill wide enough to fit the diameter of the ring on the body and use the plastic washers or drill smaller so the body of the jack presses against the interior of the enclosure without the washers?

Simple! If you want the jack to connect to the enclosure, you *don't* use plastic jacks! Use a nice metal one with a nice metal sleeve that makes a decent contact with the enclosure.

The plastic ones are for when you *don't* need contact with the enclosure for whatever reason...

[antonis]

Excuse me but, if we all converge to " Simply don't bother, Andy.." what's the meaning of the rest of discussion..??

[thetragichero]

Mojo: mercury switch bypass.

That is the coolest idea ever! Did not think of that. Without having done any research on it, I would guess these things are a little difficult to come by today in most jurisdictions... "Full Tilt Boost" has a nice ring to it, no? Has anyone ever used any kind of tilt switch for a pedal? Not super convenient to integrate into a pedal board but certainly unique.

Andy

i have about a dozen mercury switches I've gotten from organ salvage missions sitting in an old car in my car in the carport until i figure out the proper way to dispose of them so lemme know if you want some