What the heck is this part?

[slowpogo]

I looked up the schematic for the Saturn V and there are no chokes or coils in there. I wonder if this is a wire resistor?

No there are 10 resistors in the circuit and they are all visible. By process of elimination -- 10 resistors, 4 diodes (not counting led), 2 ferrite beads, 4 transistors, 7 caps -- it must be a 100 or 120pf capacitor.

[willienillie]

There seems to be some confusion.  The choke coil is from an old radio, not the Saturn V.

[Rob Strand]

The funky part is a tricky one.     The builder obviously likes to use every type of wired-arsed parts he can find.   

Superficially I thought it was a cap.

It's got a glassy fired-ceramic look to it.

Things with end-caps like that are gas-arrestors but I doubt it's one of those,  these are usually cylindrical.

The ceramic could point to a power resistor but I haven't seen exposed end-caps on a resistor like that.  When end-caps are present they are usually covered with insulating material.    FWIW, there's lot's of Dale brand resistors in there.

So it's back to a cap.   Maybe it's a NOS part from a Saturn V rocket 

[willienillie]

Put me in the cap camp too.  Here's a similar-looking one from my junk stash.  This one's German, pulled from a Telefunken V72 preamp (.025uF 250V).



Edit to ask:  Who makes enclosures in the USA?

[digi2t]

It is a capacitor. Russian 100pf/250v silver mica to be exact.

Indicated as C1 in the Flint schematic.

[duck_arse]

It is a capacitor. Russian 100pf/250v silver mica to be exact.

Indicated as C1 in the Flint schematic.

awwww, does 250 count as high, really?

[slowpogo]

It is a capacitor. Russian 100pf/250v silver mica to be exact.

Indicated as C1 in the Flint schematic.

Nice! I'm trying to build a pseudo-lookalike with the Flint pcb. I found this on ebay, looks to be very similar but 500v instead of 250:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/100pF-5-tol-500V-SILVER-MICA-Capacitors-SGM-NOS-QTY-10pcs/184186025456?hash=item2ae257b5f0:g:WukAAOSwm11eVR0q

[willienillie]

Close enough, shirley.  Unless too big for your board.  Also, ribbon leads = Mojo!

[ElectricDruid]

Close enough, shirley.  Unless too big for your board.  Also, ribbon leads = Mojo!

...and from the look of that pedal, immaculate lead dress = Mojo!

[slowpogo]

ebay has the Philips (top left blue cap) too:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-Philips-Polypropylene-Film-Foil-Capacitor-100pF-630V-2222-464-81001-/122048296741

The other weird cap is a Mial polystyrene which I can't find anywhere, but I'll live. Besides the F&T, everything else is typical Mouser stuff.

[willienillie]

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/capacitor-ft-100v-100-f-axial-lead

[ElectricDruid]

ebay has the Philips (top left blue cap) too:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-Philips-Polypropylene-Film-Foil-Capacitor-100pF-630V-2222-464-81001-/122048296741

The other weird cap is a Mial polystyrene which I can't find anywhere, but I'll live. Besides the F&T, everything else is typical Mouser stuff.

It might all be available at mouser, but they're not making it easy on themselves. I think I count seven different types of resistor and three different diodes inside that thing. I'm quite sure there's no earthly reason for that. I suppose that's why they're called Spaceman pedals.

[digi2t]

It's just the way they roll. The parts and values can be as exotic as the pedals themselves.

[slowpogo]

I thought I'd share what I've come up with in my quest to identify the actual Saturn V parts used, or at least something that is functionally equivalent and looks the same. I'm referencing the Flint circuit. Some of these would obviously require some creativity to "fit" on the Flint board, especially the F&T, but I believe it could be done. Some may find this endeavor, and Spaceman's way of doing things, a waste of time/energy/money but I personally love the aesthetic attention to detail even inside the pedal. The "mojo" debate rages eternal but who knows, some of these weird esoteric parts just may impart a slightly different tonality, for those who want to close that last 1% gap of authenticity.

R1:
Blue metal film 4M7
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/71-RN60D-F-10K

R2:
Brown metal film with bands, 6k19. Best guess at Mouser:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/71-CCF556K19FKE36

R3, R5:
Vishay Dale RN60 10k
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/71-RN60D-F-10K

R4:
Mini carbon film 3k9
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/603-CFR-12JB-52-3K9

R6, R7:
Blue metal film 1k69
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/603-MFR-25FBF52-1K69

R8, R9:
Brown metal film, smooth un-banded barrel, 3k01. Best guess at Mouser:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/71-PTF563K0100BZBF

R10:
Mini blue metal film, 1k5
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/71-CCF556K19FKE36

D1,3,5:
Random vintage 1N4148?? Pedalhacker has some likely candidates
https://www.pedalhackerelectronics.com/searchresults.asp?Search=1n4148

D2:
ST Micro blue BAT46
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/71-CCF556K19FKE36


C1:
Russian Silver Mica 100n
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100pF-5-tol-500V-SILVER-MICA-Capacitors-SGM-NOS-QTY-10pcs/184186025456?hash=item2ae257b5f0:g:WukAAOSwm11eVR0q

C2:
Blue EPCOS, I assume the B32529 series that everyone uses (in some photos it's a white box cap)
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/871-B32529C273J289

C3:
Mial blue polystyrene 120p. Can't find any blue ones in this value

C4:
Red Panasonic film cap
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/667-ECQ-E2184KB3

C5:
Yellow barrel polyester cap such as Mallory. Mouser has the Vishay Roedenstein equivalent:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/75-MKT1813410014

C6:
F&T 100uf/100v
https://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/capacitor-ft-100v-100-f-axial-lead

C7:
Philips polypropylene film 100n
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-Philips-Polypropylene-Film-Foil-Capacitor-100pF-630V-2222-464-81001-/122048296741

[digi2t]

Not meanin' to pee in your fav breakfast cereal, but don't go too nuts with the authenticity angle. The only thing you'll really gain is the visual mojo, but not much more.

I traced this from a loaner unit. When I completed the clone, I did a full A/B recording session with the clone vs. the original. The clone used bog standard parts (1/4w metal film resistors, metallized poly caps, blablabla. What you find at Tayda on any given day). The only real goal here is to try and match the published voltages as closely as possible.

Unfortunately, I have no hippy poetry to offer (the Saturn V offered a more flavored high frequency response, whilst the clone was quite delicious in the mid range bullshit). There was no discernable difference to my ears.

Quite ironically... when I offered the blind taste test of the two clips to the owner of the Saturn V... he picked the clone soundtrack as his unit. Go figure.

[slowpogo]

I figured as much. Without wanting to reignite an ageless debate that will never be resolved -- I was arguing in favor of Black Gate capacitors 15 years ago  -- I've sometimes been surprised the way swapping parts can subtly affect the sound of a guitar amp, headphone amp or pedal. I've never measured things so it may be in my head but even so I'm quite happy to live in my own delusion. Otherwise, I like making an otherwise simple build a little more challenging, and should I ever decide to try and sell it (hopefully I'll never want to!) I think the authentic visual aspect would help make that happen. I figure that's worth the extra $15 or so this will add to the build cost, but I totally understand those who don't.

[textbook]

this is a cool thread, i like the detective work. i'm doing a flint board right now and i have a question on that 100uf.100v capacitor. does it have to be a 100v component, or is that just to make it big and cool? i can't seem to find one with that rating that will fit onto the board without sticking WAAAAY up. any thoughts, hints, or clues?

[FiveseveN]

does it have to be a 100v component?

Of course not, it's only going to see 9 V tops (or whatever you feed it). In the spirit of the original, just use whatever looks coolest.

[textbook]

hah, now you're talking. i figured as much. i'm just starting to dip my toes into the nutty gritty functionality of what's actually going on electronically with this stuff, so while i assumed ghe 100v thing was more for mojo, i wasn't going to ignore the notation on the build doc without at least asking first 👍

[ElectricDruid]

hah, now you're talking. i figured as much. i'm just starting to dip my toes into the nutty gritty functionality of what's actually going on electronically with this stuff, so while i assumed ghe 100v thing was more for mojo, i wasn't going to ignore the notation on the build doc without at least asking first 👍

Make sure to go for the biggest, COOLEST, and RAREST cap you can possibly find! After all, you don't want someone else coming long afterwards and cloning *your* pedal, do you?!? Best way to avoid that is to use parts no-one else has...Make it your own!

I said much earlier in this thread that I love this pedal. I think it's a really creative piece of work. OF COURSE all those "mojo" parts aren't required for the sound, but paying attention to the whole visual style of the *inside* of the pedal as well as the outside lifts it to another level. So I have total respect for this despite being convinced it has no bearing on the sonic result at all!!