Noob feeling like an idiot - could use some assistance...

[Grendel2000]

Check out the sticky "Debugging" thread.  It will basically ask for voltage readings from each leg of your active components (two transistors in your case) and your power supply.  And some pictures of what you've actually built - top and bottom of PCB please.

Will do - THANK YOU!

[jfrabat]

Right off the bat...  Did you use cables in the jacks?  I ask because the input jack is using the sleeve as kind of a switch...  If there is nothing connected, the circuit is open and will not work.  No need to connect anything to the output.  But be sure to connect a cable to the input or the pedal will not power up.

EDIT: I am assuming you are testing with a battery

[DIY Bass]

Ok.


EDIT:
Another question: I assume the components that are lighter and pictured at C6 and D3 are optional.  I have nothing in those spots.  If correct and those are optional for derivative versions of the pedal, do I need to jumper anything in lieu of the skipped components?

C6 and D3 are sort of optional.  Whatever you do, do not replace them with jumpers, as that will short the ground and 9V together and your power supply/battery will get very hot.  C6 is designed to filter out ripples in the power supply.  Without it, any slight disturbance in the power supply voltage will inject noise into the pedal.  If you have a stable power supply or use batteries only, then not a problem.  Personally I would add it in because you never know what power you may plug  into down the track.  D3 is designed to protect the circuit in case the power supply is ever plugged in with reverse polarity (9V connected to Gnd and vice versa).  Without it a reverse power supply may blow the circuit.  It will work without it, but again I personally would add it.

[jfrabat]

C6 and D3 are sort of optional.  Whatever you do, do not replace them with jumpers, as that will short the ground and 9V together and your power supply/battery will get very hot.  C6 is designed to filter out ripples in the power supply.  Without it, any slight disturbance in the power supply voltage will inject noise into the pedal.  If you have a stable power supply or use batteries only, then not a problem.  Personally I would add it in because you never know what power you may plug  into down the track.  D3 is designed to protect the circuit in case the power supply is ever plugged in with reverse polarity (9V connected to Gnd and vice versa).  Without it a reverse power supply may blow the circuit.  It will work without it, but again I personally would add it.

I second the opinion to add them!

[Grendel2000]

Right off the bat...  Did you use cables in the jacks?  I ask because the input jack is using the sleeve as kind of a switch...  If there is nothing connected, the circuit is open and will not work.  No need to connect anything to the output.  But be sure to connect a cable to the input or the pedal will not power up.

EDIT: I am assuming you are testing with a battery

Yes, I placed patch cables in both the input and outputs to ensure it should power up.  And yes - I tried both 9v battery and also a power lead from my PP2+.  neither made a difference.  Thanks!

[Grendel2000]

Ok, thanks for the support and sorry for the long delay but I'm finally ready to put in the time to trouble shoot my pedal build.

Here is the info requested:

Full set of information about what I built:
1.Name of the project: FF5 (Fuzz face 5) Boutique Late 60's NPN Version, from General Guitar Gadgets.
2.Links to the source of the project: http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/effects-projects/fuzz-tones/fuzz-faces/#ff5_69npn
3.Some candid admissions about how closely you followed the suggested layout: I followed it exactly to the best of my knowledge.  No deviations were intentionally made.
4.Any parts substitutions or modifications you made to the original: None.  That said, I ordered and have on hand some other TFK BC109B transistors I would like to use instead of the stock ones that came with it.  They are not yet installed.
5.Whether or not it's a positive ground circuit like a PNP fuzz or a Rangemaster that has been hacked to work with negative ground:  Nope.
6.What it does and does not do how it works; partially or not at all. It does NOTHING at the moment.  When I click the foot switch I get no sound and no LED or any other indications of powering up.

Additional info:
- I have tried both a 9v pattern and also a power lead from my PP2+.  Neither makes a difference - there is still no power in either case.
- I placed patch cables in both the input and outputs to ensure it should power up.
- In the process of finishing the wiring I got too close to one of the capacitors with the soldering iron and melted a corner of it a bit.  I don't know if this would contribute to the issue.
- I have several other transistors on hand that I'd intended to try out in the pedal but haven't opened yet.  If trying a different set would be helpful I can definitely do that.

I'm stuck at the next step in the instructions: "1.Hook up the DC power to the circuit (no input signal or amp needed) and clip the meter black/negative lead to signal ground."  Since I don't know how to read schematics and am unfamiliar with most electronics nomenclature  I'm not sure where "signal ground" is.  Can someone help me out here?  Once I have that I can take the voltage measurements requested ("Probe **every** pin of each IC, transistor and zener diode (if any), and also the battery at the clip and where the battery wires come onto the board. Make a written list of the voltages.").

Also, pics of my build in progress can be seen here:
https://imgur.com/a/UYwVjCK

Thank you everyone for your help!  I really appreciate it!

[bluebunny]

Since I don't know how to read schematics and am unfamiliar with most electronics nomenclature  I'm not sure where "signal ground" is.  Can someone help me out here?

Sure.  Place your black lead at one of the jack "sleeve" lugs.  This is ground.  So it the -ve terminal of your battery clip or DC jack (the one with the black lead in JD's picture).  And so is that great long PCB trace that starts in the top right, goes all along the bottom and part-way up the left.  You notice the things I mentioned first are all connected to this trace (directly or indirectly).

But you're really going to have to learn a little bit about schematics and what we call stuff.  You don't need a degree or to be an EE or anything scary like that, but a little goes a long way.  A good (though perhaps slow) way of learning this stuff is to hang around here and read all the posts.  It will slowly sink in.  There's also tonnes of tutorial stuff out there on the interwebz to let you in gently.  You'll be glad you did.

[Grendel2000]

Since I don't know how to read schematics and am unfamiliar with most electronics nomenclature  I'm not sure where "signal ground" is.  Can someone help me out here?

Sure.  Place your black lead at one of the jack "sleeve" lugs.  This is ground.  So it the -ve terminal of your battery clip or DC jack (the one with the black lead in JD's picture).  And so is that great long PCB trace that starts in the top right, goes all along the bottom and part-way up the left.  You notice the things I mentioned first are all connected to this trace (directly or indirectly).

But you're really going to have to learn a little bit about schematics and what we call stuff.  You don't need a degree or to be an EE or anything scary like that, but a little goes a long way.  A good (though perhaps slow) way of learning this stuff is to hang around here and read all the posts.  It will slowly sink in.  There's also tonnes of tutorial stuff out there on the interwebz to let you in gently.  You'll be glad you did.

Thanks a bunch - I appreciate your help!  I'll get right on testing now...

[Grendel2000]

Ok.  First set of readings with one caveat - the instructions said to read the voltage where the battery wires meet the board.  They do not attach to the board in my schematic - they attach to the DC jack lug and the input jack lug so I took the measurements there:

Voltage at the circuit board (lug) end of the red battery lead = 9.43 (@power jack lug ay end of red battery wire)
Voltage at the circuit board (lug) end of the black battery lead = 0

Now, using the original schematic as a reference for which part is which (that is, which transistor is Q1, Q2, etc. and which IC is IC1, IC2, C1, and so on) measure and list the voltage on each pin of every transistor and IC. Just keep the black lead on ground, and touch the pointed end of the red probe to each one in turn. Report the voltages as follows:

Q1
C =.256
B = Starts at 20 and slowly decreases to 0
E = 0

Q2
C= .715
B= .256
E= .694

IC1 (or U1)
P1
P2
P3

D1
A (anode, the non-band end) =
K (cathode, the banded end) =

D2
A =
K =

Z1 (zener)
A =
K =

Since there are only 2 transistors (and no other components besides resistors and two capacitors) where else should I take measurements?

[antonis]

Have you checked for correct transistors pin-out..??

I should say Q1 is saturated, judging from its Collector voltage, but its Base voltage puzzles me..
Also, Q2 Base & Emitter voltages look reversed..

[Grendel2000]

The transistors are labelled CEN2N 3904 on their face.

I initially referred to this document to determine which leg was which on the transistors:
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/ggg_intro_transistors.pdf

I just looked up close at them and realized that they actually have the labels for each leg on the same face as the text with the transistor type.  The labels correspond correctly with the diagram for both Q1 and Q2 for E B and C markings.

[antonis]

OK..

Start checking for Q1 Collector/Q2 Base voltage, by measuring R2 on upper leg..

[Grendel2000]

OK..

Start checking for Q1 Collector/Q2 Base voltage, by measuring R2 on upper leg..

Sorry, I feel like an idiot but I'm doing my best. 

So one probe of the multimeter goes on the "upstream" (closest to the power source?) leg go the R2 resistor, and the other probe will go to the Collector on Q1 (measure that) and the Base on Q2 (measure that as well separately)?

If so the values are:
Q1 (collector) .030
Q2 (base).033

[jfrabat]

OK..

Start checking for Q1 Collector/Q2 Base voltage, by measuring R2 on upper leg..

Sorry, I feel like an idiot but I'm doing my best. 

So one probe of the multimeter goes on the "upstream" (closest to the power source?) leg go the R2 resistor, and the other probe will go to the Collector on Q1 (measure that) and the Base on Q2 (measure that as well separately)?

If so the values are:
Q1 (collector) .030
Q2 (base).033

Don't feel like an idiot.  We have all been there...  God knows I have at least 18 to 20 pedals done, and I still need help from the guys here every time!

OK, first, if your MM (Multi Meter) has alligator clips, just clip one to the collar of one of the audio jacks.   Something like this (that is NOT my MM, by the way, but you get the idea):



Leave the positive with the pointed one; it will make reading easier. 

If you do not have alligator clips for the MM, you will need to just hold it there by hand.  Kind of like this:



The alligator clip just makes it easier to clip it there and just worry about the positive terminal to measure whatever you are going to measure without worrying if the negative side slipped off the ground.  But either works fine, as long as you connected the jacks correctly.  Simple way to test this is to measure the battery voltage (touch the MM positive terminal to the + input).  If you read anything close to 9V, you are good to go.

Now that you have the MM grounded, you need to figure out what you are going to measure.  What Antonis is asking is for you to take the positive lead of the MM and measure the voltage of Resistor R2.  If you see in the diagram, R2 is connected to Q1's collector and Q2's base.  The upper leg is the one on the top in the schematic (so not the one connected to the transistors).  To know which is which in the board, you will need to follow the traces on the board. 

Because the voltage at Q1's collector is weird, Antonis is asking to see what current the resistor is getting to be sure if the voltage reaching the resistor is correct; if it is, it means either you have the wrong resistor, or the resistor is damaged (I think that is what he is doing, anyway; but that makes sense).  I would measure at both sides to be sure, but that voltage can tell you if something is weird there.

This is how to tell what the pins are in the NPN transistor (in both schematic and physically); you mentioned you are using 2N3904 (you said they read CEN2N 3904; they are called 2N3904.  Another tip: many transistors start with 2N; not all, but a good portion):



So, now using the flat side as the guide, make sure you are clear which is emitter and which is collector (in other words, make sure you did not installed them in the opposite direction).

Hope this helps!

[Grendel2000]

When I measure on the side of R2 closest to the power source it reads 9.12v.  On the far side (closer to the transistor) it reads .246v.

That's on the 9v setting of my multimeter

[Grendel2000]

OK..

Start checking for Q1 Collector/Q2 Base voltage, by measuring R2 on upper leg..

Sorry, I feel like an idiot but I'm doing my best. 

So one probe of the multimeter goes on the "upstream" (closest to the power source?) leg go the R2 resistor, and the other probe will go to the Collector on Q1 (measure that) and the Base on Q2 (measure that as well separately)?

If so the values are:
Q1 (collector) .030
Q2 (base).033

Don't feel like an idiot.  We have all been there...  God knows I have at least 18 to 20 pedals done, and I still need help from the guys here every time!

OK, first, if your MM (Multi Meter) has alligator clips, just clip one to the collar of one of the audio jacks.   Something like this (that is NOT my MM, by the way, but you get the idea):



Leave the positive with the pointed one; it will make reading easier. 

If you do not have alligator clips for the MM, you will need to just hold it there by hand.  Kind of like this:



The alligator clip just makes it easier to clip it there and just worry about the positive terminal to measure whatever you are going to measure without worrying if the negative side slipped off the ground.  But either works fine, as long as you connected the jacks correctly.  Simple way to test this is to measure the battery voltage (touch the MM positive terminal to the + input).  If you read anything close to 9V, you are good to go.

Now that you have the MM grounded, you need to figure out what you are going to measure.  What Antonis is asking is for you to take the positive lead of the MM and measure the voltage of Resistor R2.  If you see in the diagram, R2 is connected to Q1's collector and Q2's base.  The upper leg is the one on the top in the schematic (so not the one connected to the transistors).  To know which is which in the board, you will need to follow the traces on the board. 

Because the voltage at Q1's collector is weird, Antonis is asking to see what current the resistor is getting to be sure if the voltage reaching the resistor is correct; if it is, it means either you have the wrong resistor, or the resistor is damaged (I think that is what he is doing, anyway; but that makes sense).  I would measure at both sides to be sure, but that voltage can tell you if something is weird there.

This is how to tell what the pins are in the NPN transistor (in both schematic and physically); you mentioned you are using 2N3904 (you said they read CEN2N 3904; they are called 2N3904.  Another tip: many transistors start with 2N; not all, but a good portion):



So, now using the flat side as the guide, make sure you are clear which is emitter and which is collector (in other words, make sure you did not installed them in the opposite direction).

Hope this helps!

It DOES!  Thanks VERY much!

[willienillie]

You have the lugs on your output jack reversed.

[antonis]

I should suggest to disconnect C1 capacitor (either one of its legs or completely out of the board) and take again measurents on both Q1 & Q2 pins..

[Grendel2000]

Ok.  I've taken two additional steps:

1. I corrected the wiring to the lugs on the Output jack (thanks!)
2. I re-checked the voltages to between R2 and the Q1/Q2 legs that were requested earlier and got different results (I think I was touching the pad not the resistor leg before):

Checking these again and here are the readings I'm getting now from R2 (on 9v setting of multimeter):
Q1C: 5.18v
Q2B: 5.24

Still no power however.

I also just measured (for fun) the voltage between R2 and the two legs of C1:
Upstream leg: 8.3v
Downstream leg: 1.5v (decreasing over time?)

And:
R2 to R5: .440(upstream) / .330(downstream)
R2 to R4 (downstream) -127mV

[jimitrader]

there are a couple ways to track down the problem...make a signal tester
https://buildyourownclone.com/products/signaltester

or start at the input of 9v and follow until you find an area with no power...then figure out why?..maybe a bad component or bad solder joint..maybe some solder spilled over to the ground...i always test ground to ground areas and hot to hot..just put one clip on 9v adapter +/- and test through out the board with both ..i can usually find the bad spot..hope that is helpful...