fancy new components

[kraal]

Hi (good morning here),

Thank you for the explanation and pointing out the issue on the graph.

But do not trust the datasheet further than you can throw it.

Maybe one last question (unrelated to the original one)

TI, Analog, etc. all have their own fancy new components labeled as "unity gain stable" "no phase reversal" "even under high capacitive loads" "no external compensation required", "will turn your coffee maker into a spaceship", "<place here your favourite marketing sentence>". Some of these components are really expensive (and out of reach unless you want to have fun and buy a reusable demo board for 20 USD), some are not (i.e. less than 1 USD). The DIY community often sticks to the "old well known components that do their job as expected", while "more modern, not that expensive components" may exist. In your opinion, Is there a specific reason for this (ok, changing a component when doing a clone of "XXX" will change it's behavior, soldering a SMD may be more difficult than soldering a DIP socket, not everybody is an engineer)?

Best regards,

[11-90-an]

Mojo?

But i guess because some people don't bother spending the "extra" cash...

When you know that "something works" then you generally don't go and say "i'll find other alternatives"... unless you aren't me, that is...

Or maybe people aren't as aware of theese new chips that much...

[antonis]

When you know that "something works" ...

You try to find "something working better"..

[merlinb]

The DIY community often sticks to the "old well known components that do their job as expected", while "more modern, not that expensive components" may exist. In your opinion, Is there a specific reason for this

A lot of DIYers are young folks who don't have credit cards and can't set up accounts with component distributors, they buy from hobby supplies who don't stock every chip under the sun. If I'm designing a circuit for the DIY community and I use a TL072, I might get one person who asks me "can I use a TLEMJE1234u instead?" But if I specify a TLEMJE1234u I know nearly everyone will ask "can I use a TL072 instead, because I already have some of those".

[kraal]

The DIY community often sticks to the "old well known components that do their job as expected", while "more modern, not that expensive components" may exist. In your opinion, Is there a specific reason for this

A lot of DIYers are young folks who don't have credit cards and can't set up accounts with component distributors, they buy from hobby supplies who don't stock every chip under the sun. If I'm designing a circuit for the DIY community and I use a TL072, I might get one person who asks me "can I use a TLEMJE1234u instead?" But if I specify a TLEMJE1234u I know nearly everyone will ask "can I use a TL072 instead, because I already have some of those".

Well, I agree with the 2nd part of your post, but for the 1st part only partially.

Here in Switzerland you struggle finding any hobby supply (they almost all stoped business) and if you're lucky enough to find one, you have to sell a kidney prior to be able to buy anything ("it's cheap"... well 10-20 times the price you would pay online, so long for the young hobbyist). Your best bet if you don't have money is to desolder components, but you have then to find a kind enough person at the recycling center to let you take old stuff... (they make money and don't care about hobbyists). 10 months ago I was still able to buy leds, some resistors and veroboards at the "DIY shop", now you can't anymore, you have to order them online.

Mouser or Distrelec are your only viable solutions but then you have to face high shipping costs for small orders (other charge twice the price for the shipment... and let you pay additional custom fees). Tayda is ok if you're patient (very patient). Same situation for tools (you want a multimeter ? you only find expensive crap in shops, or need to go buy online.) What about giveaway ? As you live in Switzerland, they just tell you "go away"...

In other words, here you have to have a credit card if you want to even start thinking about doing DIY projects because you can't buy anything in shops.
Therefore, IMHO the problem is more related to not realizing that (for instance) TL072s are 42 years old, to the lack of literature (what's available today is not comparable with 70s-80s magazines... yes you can find good papers but only if you're able first to detect what a good paper is... and most web sites have no reviewing process) rather than just a lack of credit card.

A 42yo young DIY lad having a credit card (and children using it) :-D

[kraal]

When I write "high shipping costs" I mean ~24 USD (unless you order is > ~60 USD @ Mouser), and if you go above ~70 USD you have to pay additional taxes.
Distrelec it's even worse (~12 USDunless your order is > ~110 USD), Digikey and other are even worse (~40 USD). I just tested an order at Smallbear for a single TL072... 16.62 USD (slowest delivery), 141.81 USD with UPS... (they should just be ashamed If I sell them a little box up to 2cm high to the US I pay 2CHF ... 2.2 USD)

And about the age:  young Hobbyists in the US can order samples for free and only pay the delivery (~5 USD). The same youngsters in europe can also order samples (but have then to pay at least 30 USD to have them delivered... which is more expensive than buying at Mouser.)

Cheers

[antonis]

I'm not informed of any company "bearing" free samples to young hobbyists..

[vigilante397]

I'm not informed of any company "bearing" free samples to young hobbyists..

I get free samples from T.I., it's pretty amazing Which reminds me, I'm all out of the $16 component I requested samples of a while ago, I need to get another handful coming. They limit you to 5 samples at a time, and you can only get one of each component. So while you can't get five TL072, you can get around it by ordering a TL072CD, a TL072CDR, a TL072CP, etc.

[Fancy Lime]

I'm with Merlin on the "always design for garden variety parts unless there is a really compelling reason to use something extraordinary". And there rarely is such a reason for our purposes in my experience. But when there is, there are some other options where you may find unusual components at ok prices without outragous shipping costs to Switzerland:

Reichelt.de

Banzaimusic

I have never wanted to order any specialty component (usually ICs or transistors) that I could not find at either of those. YMMV, of course. Banzaimusic is not cheap but they carry a lot of music-diy specific oddball components.

Cheers, Andy

[kraal]

I'm not informed of any company "bearing" free samples to young hobbyists..

Just register (even as a secondary student)

https://www.analog.com/en/education/education-library/faqs/do-I-need-to-register-before-I-can-request-samples.html
https://www.analog.com/en/education/education-library/faqs/how-much-do-product-samples-cost.html
https://www.analog.com/en/education/education-library/faqs/what-is-the-method-of-shipment-for-Analog-Devices-samples.html

Now you don't event have to do it in fact, just register on their website. You can then request samples (3 max per component the last time I checked, not all components are eligible, but many of their new products.)

This is IMHO a very smart move to attract talents and imaginative people.

[kraal]

I'm with Merlin on the "always design for garden variety parts unless there is a really compelling reason to use something extraordinary". And there rarely is such a reason for our purposes in my experience. But when there is, there are some other options where you may find unusual components at ok prices without outragous shipping costs to Switzerland:

Reichelt.de

Banzaimusic

I have never wanted to order any specialty component (usually ICs or transistors) that I could not find at either of those. YMMV, of course. Banzaimusic is not cheap but they carry a lot of music-diy specific oddball components.

Cheers, Andy

Banzai music does not pay for custom fees, and the more you order the more you pay for the shipping (not worth it in most cases.) But I agree on the "oddball" part of your answer.
Reichelt has better prices but again, unless you order for less than ~47 euros (with a little margin) + shipping cost, you end up paying (rather high) custom fees.

[Mark Hammer]

So here's a chart from the Horowitz & Hill book,showing specs for a VERY large assortment of op-amps, circa 1989:  https://hammer.ampage.org/files/op-amp_chart.zip

I'm assuming there are easily 2-3 times as many now, were a new chart to be drawn up.  Why not simply have a half dozen op-amps?  All op-amps are designed to address a particular set of circumstances, not unlike the 101-piece screwdriver tip set you may have bought.

The question is, have the requirements for an op-amp, that does what needs to be done in the standard kinds of guitar-pedal circuits, changed much in the last 50 years?  A tiny bit.  Some have reduced current requirements.  Some have lower noise where that's critical to the application.  Some have greater gain-bandwidth product.  Some swing a little closer to the rails.  But it's not at all clear we actually need more than that or have needs SO specific they demand a very particular op-amp.

[Rob Strand]

The question is, have the requirements for an op-amp, that does what needs to be done in the standard kinds of guitar-pedal circuits, changed much in the last 50 years?  A tiny bit.

If at all.  More the issue is the requirements for op-amps outside of pedals have changed.    Much more demand for lower voltages, rail to rail swing.  More demanding in specific areas, like speed, drift etc.   That's why there's so many parts.   It's option overload for an engineer but it's surprising how specific jobs narrow down the vastness of choices.   If you are building products all this helps and you can afford to buy a 4k reel of opamps.   For small outlets and hobbyists you can't afford to stock of every part, and there's no real need.    That's lead on to Merlins's comment.

[PRR]

> free samples from T.I.

https://www.ti.com/info-store/help/free-sample-program.html

T.I. will not send samples to a "free" or an educational email account.

FWIW: I had an account years ago and got little to no spam through it.

[ElectricDruid]

I'm not informed of any company "bearing" free samples to young hobbyists..

Microchip ship free samples too. Register here, and you can sample up to three of two different chips (or is it two of three different chips? I forget...) each month:

https://www.microchipdirect.com

Whatever it is, it's a good offer. I often use it as a quick way to get a few parts for development. It works for Microchip since if the project comes to fruition I'll probably sell several thousand of them.

[smallbearelec]

I just tested an order at Smallbear for a single TL072... 16.62 USD (slowest delivery)

I hope it is clear that SBE does not see most of that shipping fee. The US Postal Service charges a "package" rate for a shipping bag, minimum $14.50 for regular air service, to western Europe. They actually make money on that business, so to subsidize their losses on delivering letters. Shoppers should note that the high minimum remains the same for the first 120 grams. If you do order from the Cave, please feel free to fill 'er up.

Regards
SD

[Steben]

Ive had some samples sent to me by t.i. most of them did not get used.... 

[duck_arse]

Ive had some samples sent to me by t.i. most of them did not get used.... 

me too. and as a surprise, a nice lady from t.i. rang me some time later, to ask how many of each I might be needing, per year. and what projects I had planned to use them in. errrr ......

and next time I looked, I wasn't elligible for samples from them.

[Kipper4]

Always the bridesmaid.

I wouldn't give yer a quid more than is needed for ya mojo parts in a pedal.

I too am not eligible for TI freebies.

[Kipper4]

Warning threadjack......

How's everyone ?