1 beginner 4 pedals

[ghiekorg]

Hi everyone. My name's Piero, i'm an italian living abroad and this is my first (long) post here.
As you can read from the title i am a beginner and have no knowledge of circuits . The only related experience i have is building a booster pedal like 7 years ago.

I want to build 4 pedals (if i have to buy tools and components i thought it was stupid to just make one  ):
- Tentacle
- 8 Bitar
- Chasm reverb
- Microtubes B3k

I would like to document everything, from the package arrival till the sound test, board etching included.
I created already an Excel sheet with all the components and the tools i need, you can find it here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nAQtzltw5r48sy1EWkqGpORohQTVQKSK5X6x1rINv9Y/edit?usp=sharing
you can also comment it if you wanna help me or if i did some mistake like linking the wrong components

I would like to send the order quite soon but there are still some doubts that i list here. i have tried to read around but coulnd't find an answer for everything, if you could help me solve them it would be great:
1- 47uF capacitor (row 20): on the website where i want to buy components i only found this version and it's 10x more expensive than the other capacitors. It's not a problem but i would like to understand if the component is still ok to use
(https://www.musikding.de/ELNA-RFS-47uF-25V_1)
2a- i need 2x J201 (row 49) but it's impossible to find them where i live. I read i could use 2N5457, but they are also impossible to find. Following this cascade i ended up with J112. Can i use them to substitute J201 and2N5457?
(https://www.musikding.de/J112_1)
2b- Can i used these somehow?
(https://www.musikding.de/MMBFJ201_1 and https://www.musikding.de/MMBF5457_1)
3- does the TL072 (row 50) need a socket? There are two kinds, one seems normal and the other is called "precision". Do they work the same way?
(https://www.musikding.de/IC-Sockets)
4- I would need a L78L05 (row 60). Can i use a 7805CKC instead?
(https://www.musikding.de/7805CKC_1)
5- I have to buy these ICs: CD4069UBE, 4049UBE, BTDR-2H (rows 63-65-67). Only the first 2 need a socket or all of them?
6- Pots are A=log , B=lin, C= rev log. Right?
7- for the b3k i need 2x SPDT on/off/on (row 86). On the website i can't find this "on/off/on" in the description. Do you think this will work? (https://www.musikding.de/Toggleswitch-SPDT-flat-toggle)
8- For the charm reverb i need also a SPDT(row 87) but the chart doesn't say anything else. Can i use the same as before?
9- I will prepare the PCB board transferring the print on the board with a hot iron and then i will etch it using vinegar-salt-hydrogen peroxide (believe it or not here where i live you cannot find muriatic acid and the hydrogen peroxide costs 100$ per litre). Do you think 100ml of peroxide would be enough to etch 4 boards?
10- The website is selling 3 types of copper boards (row 94). Which one do i have to get? (https://www.musikding.de/navi.php?qs=copper+board)

Thank you for the moment. Once i have this problems solved i will procede to the order

Edit: i added the 2b question, i forgot about it

[niektb]

1. Lets just say that Elna RFS are the fancy stuff! High-end!

I did find this one: https://www.musikding.de/Samwha-WL-47uF-35V_1

[jfrabat]

Hi, Piero.   Welcome tonthe site!

Regarding your questions:

2a- i need 2x J201 (row 49) but it's impossible to find them where i live. I read i could use 2N5457, but they are also impossible to find. Following this cascade i ended up with J112. Can i use them to substitute J201 and2N5457?
(https://www.musikding.de/J112_1)
2b- Can i used these somehow?
(https://www.musikding.de/MMBFJ201_1 and https://www.musikding.de/MMBF5457_1)

Not sure where you are at (Denmark?), but Mouser (they have EU warehouse) carries both J201 and 2N5457.  Neither are really that uncommon. 

3- does the TL072 (row 50) need a socket? There are two kinds, one seems normal and the other is called "precision". Do they work the same way?
(https://www.musikding.de/IC-Sockets)

In my experience, it is wise to always socket IC.  I would certainly use one.

]
4- I would need a L78L05 (row 60). Can i use a 7805CKC instead?
(https://www.musikding.de/7805CKC_1)

Again, Mouser has the right part...

]
5- I have to buy these ICs: CD4069UBE, 4049UBE, BTDR-2H (rows 63-65-67). Only the first 2 need a socket or all of them?

Again, I would socket all ICs (and transistors, for that matter).

]
6- Pots are A=log , B=lin, C= rev log. Right?

In the US and all the Americas, yes.  But it changes by region.  Not sure about EU.

]
7- for the b3k i need 2x SPDT on/off/on (row 86). On the website i can't find this "on/off/on" in the description. Do you think this will work? (https://www.musikding.de/Toggleswitch-SPDT-flat-toggle)

Have not checked the link, but, again, check Mouser.  Check the spec sheets of the products.  You are looking for microswitches (the others can be rather big!)

]
8- For the charm reverb i need also a SPDT(row 87) but the chart doesn't say anything else. Can i use the same as before?

You can, but a DPDT will have 3 positions.  If you use it instead of a DPST, you will have off, off, on.

]
9- I will prepare the PCB board transferring the print on the board with a hot iron and then i will etch it using vinegar-salt-hydrogen peroxide (believe it or not here where i live you cannot find muriatic acid and the hydrogen peroxide costs 100$ per litre). Do you think 100ml of peroxide would be enough to etch 4 boards?

Depends on the size of the boards and container, but it should be enough.  I have not etched in some time now (i sent them to print now), but I think it is.

]
10- The website is selling 3 types of copper boards (row 94). Which one do i have to get? (https://www.musikding.de/navi.php?qs=copper+board)

If you plan to iron, do not buy photo positive.  Those you need to develop.  I would get the basic ones.  Not sure what the resin ones are.

[deadastronaut]

for the chasm use an spdt on/on....

[11-90-an]

Hello and welcome to the forum...

When you ask questions like that, sometimes schematics could help for context...
But don't worry, I got your back on that...

Tentacle:


8 - Bitar:
https://www.parasitstudio.se/uploads/2/4/4/9/2449159/8bitar_doc.pdf

Chasm Reverb:


Microtubes B3K:


For your questions:
1.  This capacitor is used as a decoupling cap, so almost any value can be fine... 10uF, 22uF, 33uF, 68uF, or 100uF could be fine

2a. The 2n5457 in the Chasm reverb can be replaced with a J112 just fine, for the others I'm not quite sure...
2b. You certainly can! just remember that these are SMD components, and can be quite hard to solder for beginners... Also you would need an adaptor board like this:
https://www.musikding.de/Adapter-SMD-TO23-RM254_1

3. Any should be fine, except for the fact that the "presicion" has more space from the board than the other. Honestly, the cheaper one would do no harm, unless you are gonna pass some wires underneath the socket, the "presicion" would be more convenient.

4. Well, yes they would work, but you have to keep in mind that there is a difference in size, so you might have to adjust your layout to make it fit.

5. Socket all ICs. For the BTDR, you can use this technique:
https://www.reddit.com/r/diypedals/comments/9t9pws/socketing_btdr_units/
But since your BTDR is only 6-pin, you can just use a 8 pin DIP socket instead (Like the one you are using for your TL072)

6.Yep

[ElectricDruid]

Welcome Piero, and good luck with your projects!

Tom

[duck_arse]

welcome from me too.

2b - the MMBF part of the part number indicates they are surface mount parts, but are otherwise the same thing as the Jxxx or 2Nxxxx part.
3 - I think precision usually refers to the type of pin of the socket. the turned ones are precise, there are others like single- or dual-wipe contacts, which describes the "action" of the contact against the IC legs. sockets are good for beginners, and for others debugging beginner builds.

5 - "UBE" indicates an unbuffered part, usually CMOS. a "B" suffix indicates a buffered part. in the real world, a 4049B is the same/a replacement for a 4049UBE, but this is not the real world, and circuits do funny things with parts.  so you need a 4049UBE if that's specified, but for the 4069, the "UBE" part is a misunderstanding. there are no 4069 parts that are buffered, so any 4069 will be good. as with all these parts, you need to check part number against datasheet, to see whether the suffix indicates a dual-in-line through-hole part [good] or a surface-mount part [not good].
6 - pots are easy as 1, 2, 3 - A, B, C. yes, correct.
7 - "on/off/on" switch can also be called double throw, centre off. "flat toggle" describes the shape of the handle/lever.
8 - SPDT just describes the electrics of the switch. the mechanical options are for you to choose. single pole, double throw toggle should describe the right thing.

good luck, good shopping.

[ghiekorg]

So... first of all THANK YOU to everyone who already answered me, i really appreciate that.

I already solved most on my questions:
1- I changed to the one suggested by niektb
2a/b- I will buy them from Mouser, just to be sure. thanks jfrabat. they have a department in Switzerland too (that's the annoying part of not being part of the EU)
3- Normal socket added to the list
4- Mouser again
5- Socked listed. For the BTDR-2H i will use 2x 3holes inline socket. Will it work?
6- Check
7- SPDT on/off/on: would this work?
(https://www.mouser.ch/ProductDetail/NKK-Switches/M2013S3A1W01?qs=%2Fha2pyFaduh0Ca7sNUpOUQ1ZQe3rfng%2F5YFRuG1JdsM%3D)
8- SPDT on/on: Would this work? (thank you deadastronaut, i just realised you commented on it i really can't wait to try this reverb, I have listened dozens of them and to me this was the best sounding one)
(https://www.mouser.ch/ProductDetail/NKK-Switches/M2012S3A1W01?qs=tJISjqPx8tg0uzcqDsQydA%3D%3D)
9-
10- I have changed them to this 152x152mm 1.6mm thick FR4 (i read somewhere it's the best material). I was thinking of cutting it with a dremel. Do i have to wear a special mask for it? I read it's quite bad to breath it
(https://www.mouser.ch/ProductDetail/MG-Chemicals/509?qs=nnh8%2FA0SuH%252BkUP%252Bfs8DkBA%3D%3D)

I am almost ready now

[Mark Hammer]

The Tentacle schematic (Armstrong Green Ringer) will work, as shown, but will work much better if you do the following:
1) Replace R5 (6k2) with a 10k pot, with the outside lugs tied to the emitter and ground.  Run a 10uf cap from the pot wiper to ground (positive terminal going to the wiper).  This will let you adjust the sensitivity of the circuit to compensate for different pickups and input signals.
2) Because increasing the gain can increase the output and throw off effect/bypass balance, change the 47k output resistor to a 47k log volume pot.
3) Octaves that seem to "bloom" are a byproduct of holding the volume level relatively constant.  Many popular and well-respected commercial octave-up units include a back-to-back diode pair to ground near the output.  People mistakenly think that's where the fuzz comes from, but it's really just a quick-and-dirty peak limiter.  Here, you would add them from the output side of the 100nf output cap (C5).

These three changes make for a well-behaved and more responsive and satisfying octaving unit.  Not quite a Foxx Tone Machine, IMHO, but decidedly better.

[ghiekorg]

Thank you MarkHammer for your reply. I am afraid that's already too advanced for me

Still i will try the mod you just told me:
So, here is the starting board:
https://i.imgur.com/62Sli39.png
Here is what i understood i am sorry probably i got it wrong. The third point i didn't understand at all :/
https://i.imgur.com/pJKo5VR.png

thank you for understanding

[Mark Hammer]

Au contraire, I thank you for your understanding.  You have translated my verbal description into the diagram flawlessly. 

The question mark on the output pot goes to the output.  Here is where you have to do some surgery.  In the absence of that suggested pot, you can see that the 47k resistor is connected to the ground at one end, and at the other end it gets routed around everything and over the word "Tentacle" back to the stompswitch contacts.  In other words, the board is already set up as if there were a 47k pot but always set to maximum.  Implementing a volume pot would mean providing a path for less than maximum by cutting that trace back to the stompswitch, and connecting the wiper of the pot to the portion of the trace that makes it to the output.  Does that make sense to you?

For "the third point", this could be done by getting a pair of silicon diodes (1N914 or 4148 or similar) and connecting them between the two outside lugs of the added volume pot.  Keep in mind those two lugs connect back to the points on the board where you'd want the diodes connected anyway.

But, to clarify just why one may want to do this...  Guitar strings start out loud, wiggly and full of harmonics when you pick/pluck them.  Then, after maybe a few hundred milliseconds, they get quieter and settle down to mostly fundamental frequency with less harmonics.  The octaving is a doubling of that fundamental.  Or rather, it's hard to hear until it's mostly doubling the fundamental.  Those initial harmonics, and ever-so-slight pitch distortion from bending the string, make it very hard to hear the octave right away.  The string has to settle down for it to become obvious.  But then, the string has become much quieter by that point too.  So initially the octave is being masked by all this other gibberish, and by the time that gibberish has disappeared, the string is too shy for the octave to be heard loudly.  The suggested diode pair will clip the volume and maintain the illusion of steady volume level, such that it will sound like the octave is boldly stepping forward and saying "it's MY turn, now".  It does add a wee bit of distortion and harmonic content, but not all that much.

[ghiekorg]

Thank you very much, that's really some useful infos

So, in the end it should look like this?
https://imgur.com/JCeTaBz

I set the dioded in series, i don't know if they have to be in parallel...

Do you think it would still fit in a 1590A?

Thanks again. I am getting really excited about this project

[Mark Hammer]

Close but no cigar.  Here's what you should do.  The diodes are in parallel with each other, rather than in series.  You'll need to cut the trace where you see the black band, and drill or otherwise pop a hole in the board so that you can solder the wire from the wiper to that trace.  What you originally showed would not have allowed for effect bypass.

Will it fit in a 1590A?  Yes, but you will need to use smallish pots and be VERY careful about where you drill your holes; something which is true for pretty much anything built into a 1590A, whether it has pots or not.  The standard 12mm Alpha pots will work just fine.  I find that I need to offset them a bit if I use two.  That is, they aren't side by side, but one is a little closer to the front than the other.  If you can remove the plastic dust caps and still prevent any shorting of the back of the pot against the board or any components, try to do that.

I notice that the board assumes the stompswitch will be soldered directly to it, which means the jacks will have to be carefully selected so that they fit either under the board, or else above it.

As well, make sure to use a DC jack that has the fastening nut on the outside; what I like to call an "outie" rather than an "innie".  The jack sticks out more, but conserves real-estate on the inside.

I really hate trying to build into 1590A boxes.  I know it's feasible and all, and I've done it more times than I care to think about, but it doesn't take much of a mismeasurement or wandering drill bit to end up with holes that are juuuuuuuussssst off enough to simply not permit stuff to fit.  If the PCB is small, or if I can perf it, and have lots of wiggle room, I don't mind, but boards that demand precise placement in order to fit are above my own pay grade.

[ghiekorg]

Once again, thank you for your help.
I made a change to the board: Did i  understand it properly? I made a new hole and interrupted the line so i can solder the wire coming from the middle lug of the pot. i will sold the cap and the diodes directly on the pot itself i think...
I also decided to go for a 1590B. I like it more in general, it seems more stable to me when has jacks plugged.

[deadastronaut]

Regarding the chasm switch, it only has to turn osc on or off.....so doesnt need to be a 3 way on , off, on....

Just on.on.   2 way.   

Welcome btw , happy building. 

[ghiekorg]

Thank you deadastrounaut.
I will buy this https://www.mouser.ch/ProductDetail/NKK-Switches/M2012S3A1W01?qs=tJISjqPx8tg0uzcqDsQydA==

[duck_arse]

those switches you've linked to - I think they are "short bat" types. the bat is the handle or lever - short bats are used to keep them out of the way, to a certain extent. the switches themselves appear the correct, just the cosmetics - another of which is termination type. solder eyelets or pcb pins, like that. collect all the datasheets, all the details and corresponding part ordering codes are there with drawings and measures.

to your question 5 - the belton brick is a relatively heavy lump (not that I've ever handled one), cetainly heavier than a transistor or DIP IC. you can use sockets like you say, but soldering the pins directly into the board will probably be less problems down the track, reliability-wise. obviously, you will have done hours of solderings practise before you tackle the brick, so it should be fine.

[edit :] and when buying DC jacks, make sure they are NOT the metal body type. plastic body isolates the DC from the grounded metal box, which is what you want.

[Mark Hammer]

Once again, thank you for your help.
I made a change to the board: Did i  understand it properly? I made a new hole and interrupted the line so i can solder the wire coming from the middle lug of the pot. i will sold the cap and the diodes directly on the pot itself i think...
I also decided to go for a 1590B. I like it more in general, it seems more stable to me when has jacks plugged.

Ah.  I hadn't realized you were etching the board.  I thought the graphic was of a commercial board.  Kudos to you for doing the layout.  Having a proper pad were definitely help.

[ghiekorg]

those switches you've linked to - I think they are "short bat" types. the bat is the handle or lever - short bats are used to keep them out of the way, to a certain extent. the switches themselves appear the correct, just the cosmetics - another of which is termination type. solder eyelets or pcb pins, like that. collect all the datasheets, all the details and corresponding part ordering codes are there with drawings and measures.

Thank you. I am starting to understand how to read the datasheets I could find something but then i saw on musikdinge they have them as well. I am just not sure this is a ON-ON (https://www.musikding.de/Toggleswitch-SPDT-flat-toggle) so i asked them directly and i am waiting an answer 

to your question 5 - the belton brick is a relatively heavy lump (not that I've ever handled one), cetainly heavier than a transistor or DIP IC. you can use sockets like you say, but soldering the pins directly into the board will probably be less problems down the track, reliability-wise. obviously, you will have done hours of solderings practise before you tackle the brick, so it should be fine.

I have really not much practice with soldering. I mean, i did it in the past, several times, but it's not something i do regularly.. with the socket i just feel a bit more confident maybe and in case i wanna change it it should be easier (i guess)

[edit :] and when buying DC jacks, make sure they are NOT the metal body type. plastic body isolates the DC from the grounded metal box, which is what you want.

Thank you i am getting these (https://www.musikding.de/DC-power-jack-21mm-isolated-yellow). or maybe this (https://www.musikding.de/DC-power-jack-21mm-isolated-inside-mount) as i understood i don't have to disolder it to get it on/off the box

Ah.  I hadn't realized you were etching the board.  I thought the graphic was of a commercial board.  Kudos to you for doing the layout.  Having a proper pad were definitely help.

I wanna etch it but i didn't draw that, i just found it online and i modified it in photoshop

Geez, everytime i read a new post here i have to change something from my list. I hope i can make the order today or tomorrow...

[duck_arse]

your flattened toggle switch looks right. [some of the photos of switches on their site don't match the electrical specs they mention - spdt photo for 3pdt switch.]

the black DC jack is outside nut = no de-solder needed, but the yellow one is inside nut = desolder to remove.