Battery and Wart power

[savethewhales]

Thank you so much for your advice!

I actually looked for the datasheet, but with no good results.

• if the multimeter bips (or the led lights up) in one combination: this pair of lugs is connected and the connection will break when the plug is inserted (break jack).
• if the multimeter doesn't bip (or the led doesn't light up) in no combination: this is probably a make jack

No beeping at all !

If it is a make jack (you had no bip in the previous test), plug a STEREO cable and do the same test:
if the multimeter bips (or the led lights up) in one combination: this pair of lugs have their connection made (make) when the cable is plugged in
if the multimeter doesn't bip (or the led doesn't light up) in no combination: tell us

I don't have a stereo cable because this will be used to power a guitar pedal (by connect a TS cable of course).

But I conclude that, if it doesn't touch anything, I'll not use it I guess.

[kraal]

No beeping at all !

If it is a make jack (you had no bip in the previous test), plug a STEREO cable and do the same test:
if the multimeter bips (or the led lights up) in one combination: this pair of lugs have their connection made (make) when the cable is plugged in
if the multimeter doesn't bip (or the led doesn't light up) in no combination: tell us

I don't have a stereo cable because this will be used to power a guitar pedal (by connect a TS cable of course).

But I conclude that, if it doesn't touch anything, I'll not use it I guess.

What you can do if you have no stereo cable: do the same test, with a mono cable to check that it is a make jack (and  that it is working properly): you should have continuity between three lugs when the cable is plugged completely. If you half plug the cable in a way that it does not touch the last part of the connector (the one connecting to the tip) you can chck again for continuity: if there is no continuity between the lugs it mean that the make is on the tip. Find then which lug is connected to the tip: the make lug should be the one right on the next "layer" of your connector (the 4 lugs are on 4 layers).

Then take a piece of paper, a permanent marker, number the lugs on the connector and write down / draw what number corresponds to what lug.

Here are examples how you can draw it: https://www.cuidevices.com/blog/understanding-audio-jack-switches-and-schematics

Good luck !

[savethewhales]

you should have continuity between three lugs when the cable is plugged completely.

When the cable TS is plugged completely, the "extra lug" connects to the sleeve lug, and only that..

If you half plug the cable in a way that it does not touch the last part of the connector (the one connecting to the tip) you can chck again for continuity: if there is no continuity between the lugs it mean that the make is on the tip.

When I half plugged, there wasn't any connection with the "extra lug" .

Find then which lug is connected to the tip: the make lug should be the one right on the next "layer" of your connector (the 4 lugs are on 4 layers).

The 4th lug is connected below the tip layer! Right where the male jack enters.

Then take a piece of paper, a permanent marker, number the lugs on the connector and write down / draw what number corresponds to what lug.

Here are examples how you can draw it: https://www.cuidevices.com/blog/understanding-audio-jack-switches-and-schematics

Thank you very much, this should be really helpful!

[PRR]

...About the jack being loose: If it is too loose, place a spring washer. It will help keeping everything in place. ....

I don't think it is loose at the panel nut. The lugs-fingers and insulating wafers are stacked on the back of the bushing and then hammered-over to keep them tight, tight enough that they do not rotate. But at the end of the day, the factory workers get tired, don't hammer the bushing TIGHT, and the fingers and wafers may turn.

As for which lug goes to which finger: you can use a continuity beeper. Or you can look real close and see which "layer" the finger metal connects to which lug.

You do not need the switch finger in your build? Then do not connect to its lug. The main finger really does not care if an UN-connected switch finger touches it.

[savethewhales]

I don't think it is loose at the panel nut. The lugs-fingers and insulating wafers are stacked on the back of the bushing and then hammered-over to keep them tight, tight enough that they do not rotate. But at the end of the day, the factory workers get tired, don't hammer the bushing TIGHT, and the fingers and wafers may turn.

Exactly!! It was rotating a bit..

you can use a continuity beeper. Or you can look real close and see which "layer" the finger metal connects to which lug.

Yes, true! I did multimeter and looked to the "layer" too.

You do not need the switch finger in your build? Then do not connect to its lug. The main finger really does not care if an UN-connected switch finger touches it.

Nice!! Thank you a lot. Already cut it away.

[savethewhales]

Just so it happens that I soldered everything to the "pedal box", and the 9V DC transformer worked well and lit up the LED, and when I changed the switch it turned off.
Now the battery didn't actually turn on the LED, not even tweaking with the switch or plugging mono cables on the output and the input. Also on the Vcc+ that goes to the circuit there wasn't any voltage with the battery connected.

I don't know what might be going on.

I actually didn't connect anything to my FX circuit yet (because I wanted to check power before connecting directly there).
Namely I didn't connect:
- circuit input to the 3PDT
- input jack sleeve to the circuits ground
- 9V DC connector to circuits +Vcc
- output of the circuit to the 3PDT

A photo of the power circuit soldered comes next:

(click to enlarge)


I would really appreciate any help, I already checked and everything seems "on place".

Greetings

[savethewhales]

Actually I've switched places between the input and output jacks :/ even though this doesn't make any difference for the matter on discussion.

I decided to take closer pictures to see if you guys could help me in anyway. Remembering that I used the diagram 5 of the link http://www.tonepad.com/getFile.asp?id=76

One important thing is that I actually have +9V and 0 volts at the positive and negative terminals of the LED and it still doesnt't turn on.

So, to the left there's the input 6.3 socket and the battery connections, to the center there's the 3PDT, to the right there's the output 6.3 socket and in front there's the 9V DC socket.
Nevermind the colors of the cables please.

[bluebunny]

One important thing is that I actually have +9V and 0 volts at the positive and negative terminals of the LED and it still doesnt't turn on.

It did turn on.  Once.  Briefly.

[savethewhales]

It did turn on.  Once.  Briefly.

I've mixed things already.. After all the 9 and 0 V were not EXACTLY at the LED terminals, but between the LED terminal of the DC switch and the star ground.

I've just checked to see if the LED is good and it turns on with wall power!

[bluebunny]

the 9 and 0 V were not EXACTLY at the LED terminals

That's like me saying there's 240V AC between my LED terminals.  OK, not EXACTLY at the LED terminals...   

[antonis]

You've connected LED and series current limiting resistor on DC jack lug which is disconnected when DC plug is In.. 
(that plug is used for battery disconnection when external DC power is plugged in..)

[savethewhales]

You've connected LED and series current limiting resistor on DC jack lug which is disconnected when DC plug is In.. 
(that plug is used for battery disconnection when external DC power is plugged in..)

Thak you very much antonis for your answer! Actually, even with the DC power disconnected and the battery connected, the LED doesn't light up.. I don't know what might be going on..

I used the 5th diagram of this link: http://www.tonepad.com/getFile.asp?id=76 . But I noticed, by comparing with existing wiring diagrams on the internet, that this one has all pins of the 3PDT connected while many other wirings don't have this one wiring.. What's the main difference?

[antonis]

I used the 5th diagram of this link: http://www.tonepad.com/getFile.asp?id=76 . But I noticed, by comparing with existing wiring diagrams on the internet, that this one has all pins of the 3PDT connected while many other wirings don't have this one wiring.. What's the main difference?

Just for Input grounded when effect bypassed..
(for input cap anti-pop purpose.. - you might notice more complicated 3PDT wiring, e.g for In AND Out grounded.. or even for LED anti-pop purpose..)



But for the time being, focus on your particular wiring to find out what is actually happening ..

[savethewhales]

Just for Input grounded when effect bypassed..
(for input cap anti-pop purpose.. - you might notice more complicated 3PDT wiring, e.g for In AND Out grounded.. or even for LED anti-pop purpose..)



But for the time being, focus on your particular wiring to find out what is actually happening ..

After spending 2 whole days around this same matter, I concluded that the circuit I'm doing only lights up the LED with the battery if I connect the circuit board pads themselves. I already tried everything, with and without mono cables on the input, switch turned on/off, etc.

I didn't do it yet because I wanted to check if it worked without having to solder the circuit, but I'm already seeing that I'll have to do it and have faith that It'll work. If you all say that the diagram should work and it's fine, I just have to believe it and hope it works when I connect everything. Can't see other option.

[savethewhales]

Guys, this hasn't worked yet.. The LED lights up with the wall power but not with the battery connected, even with the FX PCB connected ..

For the sakes of testing, in what situations should the battery light up the LED? only when the switch is ON? And does it have to be connected to the FX PCB? It should also help me identify the problem.

Cheers and thanks in advance,

Fred

[antonis]

There isn't ON or OFF for 3PDT switches..
(only upper and lower lugs activation in conjunction with center ones..)





In tonepad offboard wiring No 5, effect is ON when switch is set at position 2..
(meaning 2->1, 5->4 & 8->3..)

Lug 5 should be wired to Input Jack Shield (GND) and Lug 4 to LED Cathode..
(LED's Anode in series with current limiting resistor should be wired to Power Jack +9V lug..)

[savethewhales]

There isn't ON or OFF for 3PDT switches..
(only upper and lower lugs activation in conjunction with center ones..)





In tonepad offboard wiring No 5, effect is ON when switch is set at position 2..
(meaning 2->1, 5->4 & 8->3..)

Lug 5 should be wired to Input Jack Shield (GND) and Lug 4 to LED Cathode..
(LED's Anode in series with current limiting resistor should be wired to Power Jack +9V lug..)

Perfect.. Ok, I've comnected all of that and the battery still dpesn't light up the LED.

Anyway what I was trying to say was: I don't want to connect the FX PCB to the power circuit yet for testing the power section.. Can I do this or the LED shouldn't light up?