bad stone . lfo not working

[carlozsulca]

Hi
I built a bad stone that I found in a thread here, but it only gives me a clean signal, I already tried with several cd4009 and cd4049 as you can see in the image, does anyone know how to solve this problem?

-excuse my bad bakelite cut

[Scruffie]

Could you please post voltages for the IC's and a photo of the trace side of your board?

Apologies for my post on the other forum

[Marcos - Munky]

First of all, welcome!

Along with a photo of the solder side, post a link to the project you used. I'm on my 3rd Bad Stone build, and neither of them have a trimpot. Also, post voltages on the ICs, maybe one of the cmos is dead.

[carlozsulca]

.

[carlozsulca]

First of all, welcome!

Along with a photo of the solder side, post a link to the project you used. I'm on my 3rd Bad Stone build, and neither of them have a trimpot. Also, post voltages on the ICs, maybe one of the cmos is dead.

Thanks for the welcome, could you pass me the link of the voltages please , I just measured the voltages of my lm324 and they are:
pin1: 0.61
pin2: 1.61
pin3: 1.59
pin4: 7.83
pin5: 1.14
pin6: 1.14
pin7: 2.42
pin8: 0.66
pin9: 1.61
pin10: 1.59
pin11: ground
pin12: 4.20
pin13: 1.37
pin14: 6.54
23 / 5000

the project link is:
https://the7line.clan.su/publ/diystompbox/bad_stone_phase_shifter/2-1-0-44

[11-90-an]

Your battery seems to be low... can you post a voltage reading of the battery/psu not comnected to the circuit?

[carlozsulca]

Your battery seems to be low... can you post a voltage reading of the battery/psu not comnected to the circuit?

the supply voltage is 9.13v

I measured the voltages of the 4009, they all return this:
1 4.24
2 1.63
3 4.24
4 1.63
5 4.24
6 1.63
7 4.24
8 1.63
9 4.24
10 1.63
11 4.24
12 1.63
13 4.24
14 4.24
15 1.63
16 4.24

[Scruffie]

Just to check, have you made any part substitutions and have you checked all your values? It'd hard to make out the resistor colours in your photo.

It does look like you've put 2 resistors in to one hole next to the 324?

Your battery seems to be low... can you post a voltage reading of the battery/psu not comnected to the circuit?

Normal in this circuit, the 4009 draws a lot of current.

[carlozsulca]

Just to check, have you made any part substitutions and have you checked all your values? It'd hard to make out the resistor colours in your photo.

It does look like you've put 2 resistors in to one hole next to the 324?

Your battery seems to be low... can you post a voltage reading of the battery/psu not comnected to the circuit?

Normal in this circuit, the 4009 draws a lot of current.

those resistances are 27k 2.7k 27k, I already corrected that and the problem continues

[Marcos - Munky]

I don't have the voltages of the 2 ones I built because they were "borrowed" by friends and the one I'm building to stay on my pedalboard is still on half way. But let's see what we can do.

- check that resistor pointed by Scruffie, the middle one on the left of the LM324. It is indeed one of the resistors related to the lfo. If it's really in the wrong hole, the lfo won't work. Correct that and test the circuit again on both switch positions. Is there phaser on one of the positions?
- the Bad Stone have a "manual" mode and a "auto" mode. If your switch is set to "manual" mode, you won't hear any phaser sweep because the lfo is disconnected from the circuit and you have to turn the manual pot to get the phasing. Try to play a chord (open strings works well ) and rotate the manual pot while the chord is ringing, on both switch positions. Is there phaser on one of the positions?

Edited: btw, from your voltages on the 4009 it seems the switch is in the "manual" position, since you didn't related any variable voltage on pin 15. But again, check that resistor near the LM324.

Edited again: I checked the layout against the schematic, and the trimpot sets gain for the first opamp. Basically, a volume setting. So it doesn't really matter for now, but this is what you'll be messing around later when you get it to work if you find out the volume drops when the pedal is active.

[carlozsulca]

.

[carlozsulca]

I don't have the voltages of the 2 ones I built because they were "borrowed" by friends and the one I'm building to stay on my pedalboard is still on half way. But let's see what we can do.

- check that resistor pointed by Scruffie, the middle one on the left of the LM324. It is indeed one of the resistors related to the lfo. If it's really in the wrong hole, the lfo won't work. Correct that and test the circuit again on both switch positions. Is there phaser on one of the positions?
- the Bad Stone have a "manual" mode and a "auto" mode. If your switch is set to "manual" mode, you won't hear any phaser sweep because the lfo is disconnected from the circuit and you have to turn the manual pot to get the phasing. Try to play a chord (open strings works well ) and rotate the manual pot while the chord is ringing, on both switch positions. Is there phaser on one of the positions?

Edited: btw, from your voltages on the 4009 it seems the switch is in the "manual" position, since you didn't related any variable voltage on pin 15. But again, check that resistor near the LM324.

Edited again: I checked the layout against the schematic, and the trimpot sets gain for the first opamp. Basically, a volume setting. So it doesn't really matter for now, but this is what you'll be messing around later when you get it to work if you find out the volume drops when the pedal is active.

- I have already corrected the issue of resistors close to the lm324, the lfo does not work
- there is no sweep with both switch positions
- the voltage on pin 5, which according to the diagram should be the output of the lfo, has no voltage change with both positions of the switch

a query, how can I know if a 4009 is damaged?

[Scruffie]

Your 4009 voltages look fine.

The problem is in the 324 area as you've correctly surmised, what transistor are you using? Did you check its pin out vs. the layout?

[Marcos - Munky]

But even the lfo is not working, you should get a phaser effect when you turn the manual pot when the switch is set to the "manual" position. Did you tried to rotate that pot with the switch on both positions?

[Scruffie]

But even the lfo is not working, you should get a phaser effect when you turn the manual pot when the switch is set to the "manual" position. Did you tried to rotate that pot with the switch on both positions?

The manual control is tied to the LFO.

Anyway, I've spotted the problem I believe, you have a 1k instead of a 10k coming from pin 3 & 10 of the LM324.

[carlozsulca]

But even the lfo is not working, you should get a phaser effect when you turn the manual pot when the switch is set to the "manual" position. Did you tried to rotate that pot with the switch on both positions?

The manual control is tied to the LFO.

Anyway, I've spotted the problem I believe, you have a 1k instead of a 10k coming from pin 3 & 10 of the LM324.

yes, i corrected that a moment ago but i still don't get the effect

[carlozsulca]

But even the lfo is not working, you should get a phaser effect when you turn the manual pot when the switch is set to the "manual" position. Did you tried to rotate that pot with the switch on both positions?

Yes, I tried what you say, I do not get any effect in manual, that makes me think that it is the 4009 that fails but the same thing happens with all 4009

[carlozsulca]

Your 4009 voltages look fine.

The problem is in the 324 area as you've correctly surmised, what transistor are you using? Did you check its pin out vs. the layout?

I measured the voltages of pins 2,4,6,8,12,15, with the switch in manual and turning the potentiometer, it outputs 1.85V with the potentiometer at minimum and 1.91V at maximum

[Scruffie]

I think you have more incorrect values, there's a 4k7 instead of 6k8 next to the transistor, next to the diode you have a 5k1 instead of 15k.

[carlozsulca]

I think you have more incorrect values, there's a 4k7 instead of 6k8 next to the transistor, next to the diode you have a 5k1 instead of 15k.

i'll check the resistors thoroughly, thanks