Why do my Range Masters sound like poo 💩?

[soggybag]

I've built three Range Masters so far and they all sound like poo 💩 to me. Or maybe I'm just not getting it and they are supposed to sound that way?

I've built with Ge transistors and I'm pretty sure I have the bias set up correct, and they all sound mis-biased. I recently recorded with the Range Masters into GarageBand and all three have a wave form offset, that is I see more signal above the center than below.

I built these pedals a while ago and shelved them. If recalled I biased them to the instructions at about 7v at the collector. Maybe I just don't like the sound or maybe I should try biasing them by ear?

[Big Monk]

I've built three Range Masters so far and they all sound like poo 💩 to me. Or maybe I'm just not getting it and they are supposed to sound that way?

I've built with Ge transistors and I'm pretty sure I have the bias set up correct, and they all sound mis-biased. I recently recorded with the Range Masters into GarageBand and all three have a wave form offset, that is I see more signal above the center than below.

I built these pedals a while ago and shelved them. If recalled I biased them to the instructions at about 7v at the collector. Maybe I just don't like the sound or maybe I should try biasing them by ear?

What about the rest of the circuit? Input caps? What transistors? I find that some Ge trannies like a bit less than 7 Vdc.

What about he tone do you dislike? Poop (💩) is pretty general!

[GibsonGM]

What amp are you running it into?  A solid state or tube?

I find they 'do the thing' to a tube amp input, give that real classic, punky harsh sound. I prefer it over a TS.  Alone, it's just a boost, probably not great sounding on its own...but to drive an amp, you can dial in that 'woman tone' pretty good, or sound very Pete Townsend-like! 

The asymmetrical clipping should be ok, it's about what it does to what follows it...not a miracle circuit by any means, just a very classic one if used w'the right amp.  YMMV...

[Big Monk]

What amp are you running it into?  A solid state or tube?

I find they 'do the thing' to a tube amp input, give that real classic, punky harsh sound. I prefer it over a TS.  Alone, it's just a boost, probably not great sounding on its own...but to drive an amp, you can dial in that 'woman tone' pretty good, or sound very Pete Townsend-like! 

The asymmetrical clipping should be ok, it's about what it does to what follows it...not a miracle circuit by any means, just a very classic one if used w'the right amp.  YMMV...

I will add for posterity: Mine sounds wonderful even into my little Marshall MS2 battery nighttime practice and bench amp. 

[Mark Hammer]

I've built several, and they varied considerably.

"Sound like poo"?  Is tat the "brown sound" I hear so many praising?

[Big Monk]

I've built several, and they varied considerably.

"Sound like poo"?  Is tat the "brown sound" I hear so many praising?

The Extremely Brown Sound. smelly too.

[willienillie]

maybe I should try biasing them by ear?

For sure.  Same as with a Fuzz Face.  The voltage only gets you close.

My experience:  I've never played an original, never even seen one in person.  But I have a rough idea based on demos and well-known users.  I selected a transistor that biased up to right around 7V on the breadboard with the stock resistor values.  I used a 2SB175 with hFE in the low 70s and low leakage, pretty much exactly what RG and others recommend.  I built it with a 100K trimmer in place of the 68K base-to-ground, pre-set to 68K.  It sounded kind of thin but not distorted.  A slight adjustment and it sounded much fuller, but sterile clean.  Another slight adjustment and the tone "colored in" (best I can describe it), but still not distorted.  I think that's the "right" sound.  Any further on the trimmer and it just got duller sounding.

All my trimmer bumps were in the same direction, but I'm not sure if I was increasing or decreasing that 68K.  I haven't checked voltages since, because they mean nothing really.

And as other have said, it definitely matters what you plug it into.  I haven't had an opportunity to really try it out in a proper way yet, only low volume at home.  Through my Fender-style tube amp, totally clean, it reminds me of the early transistor amps from the 1960s.  It's pretty cool stacked into some other dirt boxes.  I might get to try it soon through a cranked vintage Marshall, some friends of mine are recording a record in a couple weeks, we'll see.

[soggybag]

Thanks for the replies. Don't get me wrong I don't mean to be disparaging, it's more my reactions to the sound and wondering if I got it set up right or not.

I'm playing through a Fender Bassman with the amp set to clean at moderate volume. The sound to my ears is rough like a cheap overdrive. I'm not pushing the amp too distortion maybe that's the secret sauce?

[Big Monk]

maybe I should try biasing them by ear?

For sure.  Same as with a Fuzz Face.  The voltage only gets you close.

My experience:  I've never played an original, never even seen one in person.  But I have a rough idea based on demos and well-known users.  I selected a transistor that biased up to right around 7V on the breadboard with the stock resistor values.  I used a 2SB175 with hFE in the low 70s and low leakage, pretty much exactly what RG and others recommend.  I built it with a 100K trimmer in place of the 68K base-to-ground, pre-set to 68K.  It sounded kind of thin but not distorted.  A slight adjustment and it sounded much fuller, but sterile clean.  Another slight adjustment and the tone "colored in" (best I can describe it), but still not distorted.  I think that's the "right" sound.  Any further on the trimmer and it just got duller sounding.

All my trimmer bumps were in the same direction, but I'm not sure if I was increasing or decreasing that 68K.  I haven't checked voltages since, because they mean nothing really.

And as other have said, it definitely matters what you plug it into.  I haven't had an opportunity to really try it out in a proper way yet, only low volume at home.  Through my Fender-style tube amp, totally clean, it reminds me of the early transistor amps from the 1960s.  It's pretty cool stacked into some other dirt boxes.  I might get to try it soon through a cranked vintage Marshall, some friends of mine are recording a record in a couple weeks, we'll see.

I second this. Mine is biased to about 6.86 Vdc and that's the sweet spot for mine. It's what sound best.

Thanks for the replies. Don't get me wrong I don't mean to be disparaging, it's more my reactions to the sound and wondering if I got it set up right or not.

I'm playing through a Fender Bassman with the amp set to clean at moderate volume. The sound to my ears is rough like a cheap overdrive. I'm not pushing the amp too distortion maybe that's the secret sauce?

I would set your amp such that when you are full up on volume on the guitar, you have a nice overdrive happening, then kick in the Rangemaster. Should be the amp tone plus some. It should kick it over the edge.

I have really been liking an input cap blend pot on mine but switchable input caps will also help you dial in the right tone for the amp you are using. To me, the Rangemaster is like a vintage overdrive that you can mod to favor certain frequencies. Dark amps might like the stock treble cap but I have found the setting I like most is something in the 0.047 to 0.1 uf input cap.

[willienillie]

I measured out of curiosity.  I intentionally have a weak battery installed.  Supply 7.88V, collector 5.32V.  It's a little cool in the house since I have the windows open (I love free air conditioning!), so those numbers are probably slightly different from when I set the trimmer.  But it looks like my collector voltage would be lower than 7V with a 9V supply.

I have a 5n input cap, with a switch to parallel either 4.7n or 10n.  All settings are still pretty trebly through my rig, but I left it on 5n for the adjustments (I generally like to get things as good as I can without mods, then go from there).

[Mark Hammer]

maybe I should try biasing them by ear?

For sure.  Same as with a Fuzz Face.  The voltage only gets you close.

My experience:  I've never played an original, never even seen one in person.  But I have a rough idea based on demos and well-known users.  I selected a transistor that biased up to right around 7V on the breadboard with the stock resistor values.  I used a 2SB175 with hFE in the low 70s and low leakage, pretty much exactly what RG and others recommend.  I built it with a 100K trimmer in place of the 68K base-to-ground, pre-set to 68K.  It sounded kind of thin but not distorted.  A slight adjustment and it sounded much fuller, but sterile clean.  Another slight adjustment and the tone "colored in" (best I can describe it), but still not distorted.  I think that's the "right" sound.  Any further on the trimmer and it just got duller sounding.

All my trimmer bumps were in the same direction, but I'm not sure if I was increasing or decreasing that 68K.  I haven't checked voltages since, because they mean nothing really.

And as other have said, it definitely matters what you plug it into.  I haven't had an opportunity to really try it out in a proper way yet, only low volume at home.  Through my Fender-style tube amp, totally clean, it reminds me of the early transistor amps from the 1960s.  It's pretty cool stacked into some other dirt boxes.  I might get to try it soon through a cranked vintage Marshall, some friends of mine are recording a record in a couple weeks, we'll see.

The only one I made that I thought sounded good - and I describe it as "instant Beano" - was made with a 2SB175 as well.  I would tell you more about it but I sold it to a guy who ran the best vintage gear shop in the city, and he kept it on his board for a number of years.  So, I know it was good, but I couldn't tell you the specs.  Not that the 175 is somehow the "magic" tranny.  Rather, a) I thought it striking that we both had success with that part, and b) it shows you don't necessarily require an OC-whatever; others will do just nicely.

[11-90-an]

Sorry but I have to ask this question...

what's the weather in your area? from what I heard GE's sound different as per temperature...

also, I think we're all curious here as to see how this poo sounds like... sound demos? 

[danfrank]

Yeah, poo... Some like it, most don't. Be more descriptive.
If you think it's too treble-y look at the NAGA VIPER schematic and put in a tone blend pot, like the person posted above.
I've always turned the rangemaster knob all the way up when using it and plugged into a cranked amp. It's always sounded glorious to me this way.

As for transistor gain and leakage, rangasters are pretty forgiving with both values... If you have a Germanium transistor tester that compensates for leakage, any gain between 50-100 works well. And any value leakage from low to 300ua works well also. The only problem I've had is with some soviet transistors being very noisy/hissy.

[willienillie]

I thought it striking that we both had success with that part

I've only had five of them and they are all in pedals now, two Fuzz Faces and the Rangemaster.  I've had really good luck with Japanese germaniums.  No noise, low leakage, and great tone.

[iainpunk]

Thanks for the replies. Don't get me wrong I don't mean to be disparaging, it's more my reactions to the sound and wondering if I got it set up right or not.

I'm playing through a Fender Bassman with the amp set to clean at moderate volume. The sound to my ears is rough like a cheap overdrive. I'm not pushing the amp too distortion maybe that's the secret sauce?

the original range master sounds really really bad in a clean amp, IT NEEDS TO BOOST A MID TO LOW DRIVE AMP

yes, is it supposed to misshape/distort only one side of the wave, this gives the amp even more asymmetry, which sounds even sweeter. 7-ish volt is what most original units were, but i like to bias them even higher, 8-ish Volt to really bring out the punk rock / broken speaker sounds.

what's the weather in your area? from what I heard GE's sound different as per temperature...

my experience with range masters is that they aren't super sensitive like fuzz pedals, since they have a gain set by the surrounding circuit, not by the specific transistor Hfe.

cheers, Iain

[antonis]

Maybe I just don't like the sound

That..!!! 

[ElectricDruid]

The input cap makes a big difference in the Rangemaster circuit too. I built one with a rotary switch to select several different options and it makes a significant difference.

The biasing is crucial though, and I think you'd have to do that by ear. Definitely have a 100K trimmer for that 68K resistor, and tweak it till it sounds good. Mine sounded hopeless at first, and then with some tweaking it got better and better. Now it sounds like your signal gets "more vintage". It's fairly subtle, but very pleasant. Warms the tone up, adds a hint of non-linearity and a bit of bite.

[Rob Strand]

I clicked on the thread but I think I got something stuck on my mouse,

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[duck_arse]

I think that's your second internet win for the week, isn't it, Rob? get's my vote anyway.

[Rob Strand]

I think that's your second internet win for the week, isn't it, Rob? get's my vote anyway.

They put things in the water around here  .