What am I doing wrong with the PNP Blue transfer?

[deadastronaut]

Mad lil iron....

When i iron toner i criss cross the paper with the tip....

Then once done i shock it into instantly cooling by lobbing it into cold water....and let paper soak...

I rub off paper, and i use a toothbrush a scrub it to get residue off...

If it can take a good scrubbing without coming off its all good for etching....

[slashandburn]

Found Hexjibbers tutorial if it's any help to Eric or anyone else. I don't expect there to be much in here that Eric isn't already aware of but who knows, might be a few nuggets of wisdom that could make the difference. It's worked for me anyway.

https://diy-guitar-effects.tumblr.com/etching

[EBK]

Here's something interesting.  I tried my photo paper again, but at higher heat.  And, the paper kind of "exploded".  This is the result (the paper, not the enclosure):


There was an audible pop, and my heat press jumped slightly.  The toner and gloss film are missing from that bare area in the pic, and you can sort of see fracture lines leading away from it.  Oddly, only the jettisoned chip adhered itself to the enclosure.  Everything else basically peeled away cleanly, i.e., no toner transferred.

[EBK]

Magazine paper next. 

Update:
This is quite encouraging, actually.  Note, I didn't bother moving my heat press around to ensure that the paper was thoroughly ironed, which (I hope) explains the poor quality.  But, the toner that did transfer did so quite well and held up to a toothbrush. 


I will sand and clean this and try again (but more seriously this time  ).


Update 2:
Ok.  Closer, but still nope.


I think I've tried hard enough.  It was a fun set of experiments, but I'm done.   

[Rob Strand]

I think I've tried hard enough.  It was a fun set of experiments, but I'm done.   

The common factor in all your tests is the printer, toner, and printer settings.

[EBK]

I think I've tried hard enough.  It was a fun set of experiments, but I'm done.   

The common factor in all your tests is the printer, toner, and printer settings.

The only things I didn't change over the course of my experiments were me and my house.

The exploding paper incident tells me that I am the problem, and it is some sort of curse. 

[Rob Strand]

The only things I didn't change over the course of my experiments were me and my house.

The exploding paper incident tells me that I am the problem, and it is some sort of curse

It's one of those "why me" cases.

I remember this funny letter about one of the amplifier projects, on page 69,
https://worldradiohistory.com/AUSTRALIA/ETI-Australia/80s/ETI%201981-12%20December.pdf

[bluebunny]

The only things I didn't change over the course of my experiments were me and my house.

I'll find you some links to houses for sale in Mottingham.  Proximity to Rob will doubtless improve things.

[EBK]

The only things I didn't change over the course of my experiments were me and my house.

The exploding paper incident tells me that I am the problem, and it is some sort of curse

It's one of those "why me" cases.

I remember this funny letter about one of the amplifier projects, on page 69,
https://worldradiohistory.com/AUSTRALIA/ETI-Australia/80s/ETI%201981-12%20December.pdf

This is me:

[vigilante397]

My ineptitude was what finally pushed me to buy a CNC machine, and my messiness with ferric on clothes and carpet was what finally pushed my wife to let me

[KarenColumbo]

I may have a winner:

- I use this paper (first time I used photo paper): https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07MCKSN59/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1, design printed from my old and cheap HP LaserJet MFP something.
- I just cleaned the enclosure (original Hammond 1590B) with acetone and paper towel ("Kitchen Roll?") NO sanding at all
- I used my trusty old flat iron. First 5 minutes I let it sit in the "Wool" Setting until I was sure the paper stuck to the enclosure. Then I put a piece of paper towel (kitchen roll) on it and pressed down hard, moving the iron in circular motion. When I got bored I cranked it to "Linnen" (highest setting with this iron), let it sit there and smoked a cigarette or worked on a text I had to proof-read. I took care to give the edges of the photo paper extra care. All in all I spent 10 minutes of my life time on this.
- I shocked the enclosure immediately in cold water in my bathroom sink, then added hot tap water and a drop of dishwashing detergent and let it sit for 20-30 minutes.
- Rubbing-off with my fingers, as soon as I had the feeling, the paper coat was soaked through enough.
- Still in progress - I have the gut-feeling that the water temperature is somehow essential. Lukewarm isn't enough - takes AGES

As you can see, it's far from perfect. I assume two things: 1. this printer of mine can't adjust the amount of toner that's being printed. A bit more would go a long way to perfection. 2. I COULD have ironed it on a bit longer, taking more care to the tones masses in the middle of the design and on the edges. I'm a terribly impatient person.



SInce I have to do some 5 or 6 enclosures in the near future (next 7 days) I will keep ya updated and will try to perfect this method without sanding and using photopaper instead of magazine pages.

[KarenColumbo]

Tomorrow I'll try this: https://www.instructables.com/Heatless-cold-Toner-Transfer-for-PCB-Making/

[Phend]

Not knowing about this, does the surface need to be flat ?
Will the stuff not transfer into a small pocket ?

[EBK]

Not knowing about this, does the surface need to be flat ?
Will the stuff not transfer into a small pocket ?

Assuming you are talking about the PNP Blue stuff, it is designed to work well with very flat copper clad PCBs.  The film is more or less supposed to cleanly release the toner, and it is up to the PCB to stick to it.  I would expect that a very small amount of surface roughness would improve the transfer.  I can no longer recall how smooth the surface was when I successfully used this stuff though.

[davent]

There's another consideration in transferring i didn't consider, is the enclosure you've been working with sanded perfectly flat?
dave

[KarenColumbo]

This is as good as it gets with photo paper & ironing.



"Heatless" experiment stalled - I need very light but glossy magazine paper, photo paper won't give up the toner, no matter how high the Acetone's part in the mixture. Gotta dive the recycling paper container downstairs. Oh what they'll laugh, ha, ha.

[EBK]

There's another consideration in transferring i didn't consider, is the enclosure you've been working with sanded perfectly flat?
dave

Pretty sure. I've resanded it about 20 times at this point with a sanding block.  At one point, I actually found myself checking the thickness of the metal to make sure I wasn't in danger of sanding the enclosure face out of existence. 

[davent]

When using a handheld sanding block there's a natural tendency to take more material from the outer edges and create a non-flat surface. If you attach a sheet of sandpaper to a large flat stationary surface and sand the enclosure face on that you'll get it flat.
dave

[Phend]

^ Might want to first take a black marker and cover the entire top. Then start sanding, when all the black marker is gone it should be flat. Like Dave says put a bigger sand paper sheet on a known flat surface. Hold the enclosure top side down on the sand paper and use "a circular motion" with Frank Zappa playing in the back ground.

[EBK]

I just checked with a machinist square.  The enclosure face is "flat" with a hair-thick deviation along its length.  I actually hold my sanding block upside down when I use it on enclosures, and I keep the enclosure within the sanding block surface boundary, to try to prevent edge rounding.  Probably not as good as using a large sheet of sandpaper and a flat table, for example, but not too bad.

I'll try Zappa sanding after my next attempt.