Is it still possible to make a name / money with a new Analog Guitar pedal ?

[Vivek]

To me, it appears

All the great work in DIY guitar electronics and even commercial guitar electronics was done more than 20 years ago.

All major IC types came out more than 15 years ago.

The great experimenters did almost all possible pertinent experiments more than 20 years ago. Even famous pedal manufacturers seem to be making "new" pedals by only reorganising the standard building blocks that the respected DIY experimenters came up with more than 20 years ago.

The great tones like Marshal, Fender, Vox, Brown, Metal and Rockman etc are more than 20 years old. Everything after that seems to be just a minor derivative, minor setting of internal EQ or tone controls away from the basic tone invented more than 20 years ago.

The most important patents for guitar processing are more than 20 years old.

The great grandfather pedals like Tube Screamer, Klon, Blues Breaker etc are more than 20 years old.

It appears that for the last 15 years, almost every "new" pedal is just a rehash of an earlier pedal. Or a mix-and-match like "Lets see what happens if we put a BE-OD tone control after a Rat"


On the other hand, it is hard to compete with established commercial Analog Guitar Effect producers since they have long crossed the energy hill for survival. With their established name, marketing clout and distribution network, they can now add tone controls to a 10 year old pedal which they had initially copied from a DIY forum, call it "Deluxe" version and sell it.

The hand-made serious DIYer will be able to only sell maybe 10 pedals a month on reverb, and again, he would have taken 95% of his schematic from a DIY forum post more than 10 years ago, changed some Caps and added a switch.

and made a nice looking enclosure.


So are we too late to the party for truly innovative DIY Analog gear ? Are we only postmorteming events that happened 20 years ago ?

Is there any room for any serious technical innovation ?

Is there space in the market for new players for Guitar pedals ? or the only slots will be

4 huge players with digital products
10 old analog pedal manufacturers
50 Chinese who copy the above at 1/3th price
500 DIYers who sell 10 pedals or less per month
50,000 DIYers who make pedals for their own pleasure, sometimes never even box the pedal after they tweaked it, since they were only chasing knowledge.

Is there still space for a new person on the block to make a name for himself even if he offers knowledge and designs and analyses to the DIY community for free ?


What say you ?

[tonyharker]

No. 

[ElectricDruid]

I'm not sure about in guitar pedal world, but there's a *lot* of innovation going on in the analog synth world currently, so I'd say that yes, innovation in analog audio is certainly possible. After decades of analog synth chips being unavailable, there are currently four manufacturers making them (twice the number there were in the 70s/80s heyday!) and they're starting to produce new designs that go beyond anything that was produced back then. Sound Semiconductor in particular I would say are really pushing analog synth chips to new levels of sophistication. The easy availability of good building blocks coupled with the fact that we now have powerful, cheap processors to control these things with has made some amazing analog synths available at prices that people lusting after the Jupiter 8 when it came out could only dream of.

Can that be translated into guitar pedals? Yes, I think so.

In a small way, I've tried to do some of that myself - taking modern processors and using them to control analog audio processing. The StompLFO and the Flangelicious are examples. You can add features while making the circuits simpler. Modern analog pedals with processors can include memories, or MIDI features for example. I've worked for several boutique builders designing digital LFOs that allow digital features like tap tempo and multiple waveshapes, while keeping a genuine analog signal path. Maybe this looks famaliar?

http://www.mastrovalvola.it/lfo/

I think a lot of the innovation comes from this "best of both worlds" approach to analog and digital tech. I'm a big fan.

[GibsonGM]

Is there still space for a new person on the block to make a name for himself even if he offers knowledge and designs and analyses to the DIY community for free ?


What say you ?

"Concierge, DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM???"       

[BJM]

A simple overdrive pedal today doesn't look much different as 20 years ago. At least from the outside, the inside will probably have newer technology. It doesn't look like there's much news happening, apart from digital stuff like IR and such but analog could be improved also. Following the trend to make pedals smaller I'm still waiting for someone to put a pedal on the market without a stomp switch. Most players already use 4-6-8-10 loops switchers so that could save some pedalboard space. Just noticed I'm in the wrong forum, it would not be a "stompbox"anymore  . Or a pedal with more possible connections than just an input and an output (Í'm thinking about building an overdrive pedal with a paralell effectsloop, enough space left in the box to add some jacks).

[Vivek]

In a small way, I've tried to do some of that myself - taking modern processors and using them to control analog audio processing. The StompLFO and the Flangelicious are examples.

I need your help with StompLFO.

We got our Schmidt trigger LFO with 2 Opamps, rate control, depth control, triangle waves working fine for the ROCKMAN Chorus

Maybe adding other wave shapes could add to the available options.

Ill PM you

[Vivek]

I think a lot of the innovation comes from this "best of both worlds" approach to analog and digital tech. I'm a big fan.

This is innovative !!!

Chase Bliss Audio Preamp MKII


https://www.chaseblissaudio.com/shop-pedals/preamp-mkii

[Mark Hammer]

I've said many times on this forum that you won't get rich making fuzz boxes.  You might do okay if you're a good business person who just so happens to make fuzz boxes.

Donner/Caline/Mooer/Rowin are making money (or I assume, given that they are still around), but they generally don't produce anything innovative or particularly different.  They're still around because they pursue business practices (including where they make their pedals, and how they distribute them) that allow them to be profitable.

That said, despite what can feel like a global pedal market, there are still parts of the world where a local product can have a bit of life and success.  I'm constantly finding out about pedal lines that have existed in this or that country/continent for ages, and we've never seen them on these shores.

[Vivek]

My question had few different parts. One was :

Anyone into DIY guitar pedals knows and respects people like AMZ, Hammer, Keen, Aaron, PRR, Craig, Rob, Teemu, Electricdruid and others

I had conjectured that it's very hard for a new experimenter to become as well known as these genius experimenters since all the groundbreaking work in Guitar Analog pedals has already been done 20 years ago.

[Ripthorn]

I think there is room for new experimenters, but it won't be with pure analog. I have been developing a bunch of new projects that either use digital control of analog or use components not common in the 20 year old DIY scene. Granted, in not all known, but there aren't many diy projects for an echorec, reverb without a brick or fv-1, or double tracker. Not touring my own horn, but just an example of doing one's own thing.

https://scientificguitarist.wixsite.com/home/projects

[Vivek]

I think there is room for new experimenters
https://scientificguitarist.wixsite.com/home/projects

Great projects on your web site !


Me and my friends are currently looking at the available options on reverbs, and some of your comments match our group's thinking spot on !

[vigilante397]

Anyone into DIY guitar pedals knows and respects people like AMZ, Hammer, Keen, Aaron, PRR, Craig, Rob, Teemu, Electricdruid and others

I had conjectured that it's very hard for a new experimenter to become as well known as these genius experimenters since all the groundbreaking work in Guitar Analog pedals has already been done 20 years ago.

Why is that important? None of the people you listed (as far as I know) did what they did to become famous or to get rich. They hang out here with us nobodies because a) they enjoy it and b) they like to help. Nobody is trying to become a DIYStompboxes influencer.

If you like hanging out and contributing, hang out and contribute. If you're trying to make a name for yourself and commercialize on hanging out and contributing, not sure there's much market for that.

[BJM]

This is innovative !!!

Chase Bliss Audio Preamp MKII

Which part  ? The automated faders? I recall Yamaha already had amps years ago with motorized potentiometers.....

[ThermionicScott]

My question had few different parts. One was :

Anyone into DIY guitar pedals knows and respects people like AMZ, Hammer, Keen, Aaron, PRR, Craig, Rob, Teemu, Electricdruid and others

I had conjectured that it's very hard for a new experimenter to become as well known as these genius experimenters since all the groundbreaking work in Guitar Analog pedals has already been done 20 years ago.

Becoming known as an electronics tinkerer is probably easier than making money at it.  Most/all of the people you listed had/have a day job and do hobbyist stuff on the side. 

The Gamechanger Plasma pedal shows that there may be room in the pedal world for new and different effects:

If you want to create a successful business, you have to ask "what is a need that isn't being met by what's out there?"

[marcelomd]

I've said many times on this forum that you won't get rich making fuzz boxes. You might do okay if you're a good business person who just so happens to make fuzz boxes.

This is so true. I love the story of Doug, who founded Darkglass. He moved to Finland (following his wife, who is finnish IIRC) and decided to give his passion a try. Beyond being a super nice guy, he's a very good businessman, and maybe an even better marketer. Just look how complete the Darkglass vision is.

Now look at how much time this took. 10-15 years of full-time commitment. Darkglass was officially founded in 2009.

Full-time commitment is required to grow beyond "lifestyle" kind of business. Not many people can do that. The boring parts of running a business take a lot of time and effort.

I had conjectured that it's very hard for a new experimenter to become as well known as these genius experimenters since all the groundbreaking work in Guitar Analog pedals has already been done 20 years ago.

I don't know if it is hard, but, again, it takes time. This forum is 20+ years old (right?).
- Jack Orman's AMZ site is dated 1995;
- RG Keen's Geofex is dated 1999;

Also, I'm not sure if being considered a guru has anything to do with being successful in business.

Regarding innovation. from a business perspective, I wouldn't worry too much. The market for "old" stuff is huge.

Guitarists are notoriously conservative. Everyone wants to sound like someone from 5-50 years ago. I mean, digital profilers, such as Kemper, are technological marvels, but we use them to imitate bad designs from 1950. Every overdrive marketing piece starts with "sounds like real tubes". Or digital delays that "sound like tape delays"

My feeling is that, today, most innovation in music (not only guitar-driven-rock) is happening in the production phase. And that means computer plugins. Rick Beato said someting like "the next hit is a kid with a computer in his room".

I believe that 100% of the analog pedal technology building blocks is already here (such as clippers, equalizers, buffers). Now the game is to mix and match in different ways to make it sound good, or to have the features you like.

I do believe that, if you are going to make something new, you have to make it your own. At least give it an extra knob. JHS's Bonsai or Moonshine are good examples. Both are a TSs with extra features. Darkglass is a better example. They made a new tone with old parts. Now they are going digital. And they push for modern. None of that "sound like yesterday" vibe.

If you want to create a successful business, you have to ask "what is a need that isn't being met by what's out there?"

Most companies fail because they aren't offering something the market wants.

[Mark Hammer]

Call me jaded, but apart from varieties of noise and glitchiness (something that often falls into the same bin as the "how-much-ghost-pepper-can-you-take" approach to cuisine), there's not a lot of new sounds to be had.  Or rather, categories of new sounds.  The new frontier consists largely of performance features and control, IMHO, that allow one to manipulate how those traditional categories of sounds/effects are produced.  I suppose, at some very basic level, that can consist of throwing a 3-band EQ at a distortion that was traditionally a humble 2-knobber.  But I'm thinking of something more complex and adventurous.  A lot of it leans in the direction of what used to be post-production tricks, that can now be achieved at a gig, on demand.

I think there is a market for that.

[jatalahd]

There is lots of room for innovation in the pedal business. What I have been always wondering, why 95 percent of pedals look the same on the outside. Typically a foot-controlled switch to turn the effect on and off. All other controls are tiny knobs that cannot be controlled by foot. The wah pedal had some idea with the foot-controlled lever, but then others just have copied it but not taken the idea further.

The point is, it would be very difficult to come up with a distinct circuit that would be different than others, but developing the pedal control interface to be more user friendly is something that can be easily taken a step further.

If I only was smart and brave to take risks, I would take up on this, but unfortunately I just waste my time in office work and keep an easy and steady income.

[Ripthorn]

There is lots of room for innovation in the pedal business. What I have been always wondering, why 95 percent of pedals look the same on the outside. Typically a foot-controlled switch to turn the effect on and off. All other controls are tiny knobs that cannot be controlled by foot. The wah pedal had some idea with the foot-controlled lever, but then others just have copied it but not taken the idea further.

The point is, it would be very difficult to come up with a distinct circuit that would be different than others, but developing the pedal control interface to be more user friendly is something that can be easily taken a step further.

If I only was smart and brave to take risks, I would take up on this, but unfortunately I just waste my time in office work and keep an easy and steady income.

What if we made a hand control interface similar to a whammy bar, but instead of changing tension on the springs, it changed a control voltage like an expression pedal? That could be really fun.

[vigilante397]

There is lots of room for innovation in the pedal business. What I have been always wondering, why 95 percent of pedals look the same on the outside. Typically a foot-controlled switch to turn the effect on and off. All other controls are tiny knobs that cannot be controlled by foot. The wah pedal had some idea with the foot-controlled lever, but then others just have copied it but not taken the idea further.

The point is, it would be very difficult to come up with a distinct circuit that would be different than others, but developing the pedal control interface to be more user friendly is something that can be easily taken a step further.

If I only was smart and brave to take risks, I would take up on this, but unfortunately I just waste my time in office work and keep an easy and steady income.

I think a lot of it is playing style. And obviously this can vary by genre, but how often do you need to change the depth of your chorus in the middle of a song? Does it make sense to have that foot-controllable? What about the tone knob on your overdrive? How often do you adjust that? I'm a fairly simple player that plays fairly simple alt-rock music, but as a musician all the controls of my pedals are set at the beginning of a gig and aren't touched at all during the gig, so having more convenient control doesn't appeal to me at all. I turn them on and off depending on what I need, but I don't adjust things on the fly during a performance.

[Vivek]

I saw a pedal with optical sensor which could control expression without contact


There appear to be small midi buttons that use Bluetooth to communicate with the pedal board. You can stick these little midi buttons to your guitar and program it to any function that you like.