Is it still possible to make a name / money with a new Analog Guitar pedal ?

[Mark Hammer]

Interesting Youtube from Josh Scott today on his JHS site, regarding the puzzlingly unsuccessful run of the Visual Sound/Truetone "Garage Tone" series of low-cost-but-great-quality pedals (some designed by member RG Keen).  If they were released today, I think they would have probably done quite well.  But it seems like they arrived too soon for people to accept them.

[ThermionicScott]

I'd also like to point out that profitability and innovation are two completely different things.

This is a good point, and I debated whether/how to inject it.

The most profitable product is one that doesn't need any development or refinement -- you just keep cranking out units.  Mature industries throw off cash nicely.

Innovation is hard on profits because R&D costs money, and you are often replacing a old profitable product with a new one that comes with costs for new tooling and testing and such.  You have to make sure you're charging a premium to make money, especially since some of your profits need to go into developing the next new thing...

There's lots of online chatter about the cost of some boutique pedals, especially if the parts themselves don't add up to a lot.  Well, someone had to invest time and money developing the pedal, and someone needs to get paid for assembling them.  Even after charging a premium, they're usually not getting rich!

[iainpunk]

modern marketing demands you sell a story/idea/identity/etc..., not the product it self. look at apple, objectively not a great product, but its only for an exclusive club of people who are able to pay such exorbitant prices for products that can't even be repaired when something breaks.

if you want to make money for something audio related, i think you need to look at high audio and the audiophile world.

cheers

[POTL]

I think that this area is still open for making money. The market is saturated with manufacturers, but you need to understand that there is always an unsatisfied customer who wants what is not.

1) Look at the boutique world, JHS, Walrus, Chase Bliss, they sell digitally controlled analog delay modulation pedals, their products are more compact than those of the major manufacturers (EHX & MXR), the jacks are located on the top, which is convenient, an old boutique (Keeley, Wampler, Analogman) doesn't offer that.
2) Expensive pedals made of expensive parts, JAM pedals, they have their own base
3) affordable pedals from major brands
4) cheap pedals from China
5) powerful and expensive digital processors / pedals


If you want to start a business, analyze the market, analyze the demand. it is foolish to produce what sells well, everyone does it and you will not find a place for yourself. Look for yourself in places where there are many hungry customers. Understand what clients you want to work for. Get feedback from your potential audience. I do not mean that the world of analog pedals is not suitable for making money, I believe that the world of analog pedals has become too much the same and people come to it just for the sake of making money, but without offering anything new. In Russia, I can cite 3 interesting manufacturers, whose products I often see on pedal boards
1) Shift - Line  https://shift-line.com/
2) Analogworm https://en.analogworm.ru/
3) Dut Beardy https://www.instagram.com/dutbeardy/

If you see few products, go to the Russian versions of the sites.

At the same time, manufacturers of copies of famous pedals almost completely left the market, only a couple of small enthusiasts remained.

[ElectricDruid]

At the same time, manufacturers of copies of famous pedals almost completely left the market, only a couple of small enthusiasts remained.

What?!? No!! How many copies of how many famous pedals are there out there? Jeez! Thousands!

Or did you mean only in Russia? Am I misunderstanding what you meant? Europe's got tons of 'em...

[idiot savant]

There's a lot of different undercurrents in the guitar pedal market. Sometimes completely contradictory. On the one hand there are still clones out the wazoo. On the other hand, digital technologies have matured to the point of being nearly indistinguishable from analog in many cases.

The integration of DSP, digital control of analog circuits, and such has become very seamless. I think it mirrors the evolution of music recording more or less. There's so much more music available nowadays. Anyone can make it, you don't even need a band, a practice space, or to ever play a show. Folks, especially younger ones want that in the box(computer) freedom in all their gear.

Clones and "remixes" of old circuits still have a huge place in the market too. People like clones beacause they know, and can relate to those sounds. You hear a muff clone, you can say "this is the Billy Corgan pedal". You hear a tube screamer, you can say "this is the SRV pedal". There's less people willing to take a chance on new analog circuits because its of an unknown quantity. Clones have the - sound you know but better - factor going for them. New circuits are a harder sell, they have to justify their existance to somehow. Sometimes it feels almost random what catches on and what doesn't.

The gear market in general is bigger than I personally ever thought possible. The issue I see is that it encompases a ton of many smaller niches. You might find success exploiting one of those small niches. Or, you might have to hit some key requirements that let you exist in more than one niche.

[Rob Strand]

The easiest way to make money from pedals is to play though one, but since 2020 I'm not so sure about that anymore.

[DIY Bass]

Simple.  Find a mojo part that is no longer made.  Buy all of them.  Like all.  Make something that is a near clone of something else, but that will only sound "right" with the mojo part.  Stir up a bit of a demand.  Presto. 

[POTL]

At the same time, manufacturers of copies of famous pedals almost completely left the market, only a couple of small enthusiasts remained.

What?!? No!! How many copies of how many famous pedals are there out there? Jeez! Thousands!

Or did you mean only in Russia? Am I misunderstanding what you meant? Europe's got tons of 'em...

I meant Russia. Previously, there were many copy manufacturers, now they are mostly home craftsmen who do not have dealers and do not have a regular model range. Only manufacturers of original products are doing well. You can also recall the large (by Russian standards), AMT and Yerasov.

[POTL]

Simple.  Find a mojo part that is no longer made.  Buy all of them.  Like all.  Make something that is a near clone of something else, but that will only sound "right" with the mojo part.  Stir up a bit of a demand.  Presto.

I usually laugh in the face of every new manufacturer who writes about magic ingredients and mojo when they advertise their products. But there is one exception, JAM pedals, perhaps because even their mojo has mojo.

[dschwartz]

One thing is making pedals and other is to run a business.
As someone mentioned before, to survive by making pedals is a matter of having good business skills, happening to make pedals.
I've been living from the pedal business since 2015, with DSM Noisemaker..and for 4 years, it was OK...i managed to have oe or two "successful" designs that paid my bills for that time..i spent most of my time doing business work, which was not my strong point.

Then, i associated with other builder (Humboldt), who is not so technically savvy as i am, but i recognized his great business abilities...the result was DSM Humboldt...he is the CEO, and I'm the engineer..with the Simplifier, we found a nice niche, and doing quite well lately..but for sure, it's 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration.

[Vivek]

Then, i associated with other builder (Humboldt), who is not so technically savvy as i am, but i recognized his great business abilities...the result was DSM Humboldt...he is the CEO, and I'm the engineer..with the Simplifier, we found a nice niche, and doing quite well lately..but for sure, it's 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration.

Thanks for sharing your insights and stories !

I have seen many success stories when two or three people come together, each bringing something different to the table.

Yes the Simplifier is very interesting product and does seem to fill a niche for those looking for an analog strymon iridium.


How many people are needed to run an operation to produce the Simplifier ?

[dschwartz]

Then, i associated with other builder (Humboldt), who is not so technically savvy as i am, but i recognized his great business abilities...the result was DSM Humboldt...he is the CEO, and I'm the engineer..with the Simplifier, we found a nice niche, and doing quite well lately..but for sure, it's 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration.

Thanks for sharing your insights and stories !

I have seen many success shorties when two or three people come together, each bringing something different to the table.

Yes the Simplifier is very interesting product and does seem to fill a niche for a those looking for an analog strymon iridium.


How many people are needed to run an operation to produce the Simplifier ?

We started as a team of 3 for the first batch of 300, everyone assembling and testing..then we had to move because of the Chilean "revolution" as we were too close to the protests site.
We barely moved to the new place and covid started..so we ad to build and test from home..
After a year..now we have a bigger office and 4 builders. I dedicate 100% to design and engineer production, and my associate takes care of the business.. we also work now with a great sales manager, he took us to the next level.

[amptramp]

The business model matters.  There was a small independent music store about 10 km from where I live that had one interesting pedal for sale.  It was a booster and the price was CDN $175.  It was a very plain looking unit with no markings, just red paint or powder coat on a standard Hammond box.  The store manager said the pedal was on consignment - the store took delivery of it but did not own it.  When the pedal sold, the store would take a cut (probably $25) as a consignment sales fee.

This allowed the builder to produce a unit without having to maintain a website (meaning before a website became a business cost) and get it in front of potential buyers without having to convince the store owner to buy it.  It may still be there for all I know - the point is, innovative marketing and business ideas may get product into a user's hands where he can check it out to see if it does what he wants, something a builder is hard-pressed to do with just a website, even with a video.

[iainpunk]

The business model matters.  There was a small independent music store about 10 km from where I live that had one interesting pedal for sale.  It was a booster and the price was CDN $175.  It was a very plain looking unit with no markings, just red paint or powder coat on a standard Hammond box.  The store manager said the pedal was on consignment - the store took delivery of it but did not own it.  When the pedal sold, the store would take a cut (probably $25) as a consignment sales fee.

This allowed the builder to produce a unit without having to maintain a website (meaning before a website became a business cost) and get it in front of potential buyers without having to convince the store owner to buy it.  It may still be there for all I know - the point is, innovative marketing and business ideas may get product into a user's hands where he can check it out to see if it does what he wants, something a builder is hard-pressed to do with just a website, even with a video.

the local guitar store owner asks me from time to time if i'd be interested in selling pedals in his store, but i don't really feel like doing commercial 'mass production', generally only build for friends and people i know personally, so i can really get in to the finer details and customize for his/her taste, style of playing and the rest of the rig.
not that i see my pedal building as a business, so i don't charge high prices, depending on the circuit about 80 - 130 euro.
i had considered getting someone to build/assemble boards that i solder up for this kind of small production runs, but i decided against that idea, but might still do that in the future.

cheers

[vigilante397]

I do small production runs (40 per month) but sell exclusively through my own website. I don't have a problem finding customers (all about finding a niche) and I refuse to sell to distributors at lower prices. It isn't and never will be my day job but it's a nice secondary income and helped me get out of debt.

[Vivek]

Nathan, I visited your web site

You have some great pedals there !

[WoundUp]

I respectfully disagree. Josh @ JHS comes up with his own stuff all the time. He doesn't just reorganize or change values on what's already been done. I bet Brian Wampler is the same.

[garcho]

comes up with his own stuff

can you clarify that statement with examples? Off-topic (sort of) but I love his sense of graphic style.

[amptramp]

One question to ask is, what is going on with music styles?  Obviously if everyone suddenly goes acoustic, there won't be many pedals sold.  I am on another website where there was a discussion of whether rock music is dead and the consensus seemed to be that it is either dead or on life support.  However, this prediction has been made for every decade of rock music existence so take it with a grain of NaCl.  But there are metal bands that seem to getting gigs and they use every type of overdrive / fuzz / distortion imaginable.  Maybe love ballads will consume phaser / vibrato / flanger / chorus pedals.  Boosters and tone controls (including wah pedals and EQ) are in general use for every type of music.  Compressors are also in use everywhere.

So the question is: how many people are going to be playing the kind of music that would use your device?