Skipping the breadboard step?

[WoundUp]

So I've got a question. Since I'm less into developing my own circuits and more into just building already known good circuits, would it be easier just to order Pcb's and build those out instead of trying to build the circuit on a bb first, then ordering a PCB?

I realize that I can adjust values of components easily on a BB but mostly, I'll just be doing 1-to-1 builds, exactly as they are spec'd. Would it be easier just to buy whatever board I want and populate the board instead of messing with a breadboard?

Thanks!

[ElectricDruid]

Yes!

Breadboards are really for developing circuits. If that's not what you're doing, there's no need to do that step. If you just want to build something, get a PCB and go for it. It's pretty easy to make a few tweaks later on most PCBs, if you do get a desire to mod something.

[choklitlove]

breadboards are also useful if you just want to make sure you like a circuit enough to completely build it.

[Radical CJ]

I have a good friend who makes a bunch of electronics, including pedals sometimes, but only ever using premade pcbs. He describes it as "paint by numbers electronics". He's become quite excellent at soldering and has built a lot of things he gets good use out of, but he hasnt learnt much about how the circuits work.

That's no worry for him. But for me, I'm predominently motivated by learning, and messing around with breadboards is great for that. I do still use premade pcbs, though I still usually spend a lot of time looking over the schematic.

What works best for you will just depend on your interests, however, if you don't learn a bit about electronics debugging circuits that don't work will be much harder.

[vigilante397]

I almost never breadboard anymore, even for original designs. For a new design I know that I'll want to play with a bit I'll design in extra features, switches, pots, etc. that make it easy to tweak and adjust without redesigning the PCB, so I end up with a "development board" type build. Breadboarding is useful, I don't want to downplay it, but I don't personally have the patience for it, and where contacts wear out, it's easy to bump and either disconnect or short things, I find it's easier to work with an actual PCB even when designing a new circuit.

As with everything else in this hobby there isn't a right or wrong answer, do what works for you

[ElectricDruid]

breadboards are also useful if you just want to make sure you like a circuit enough to completely build it.

Yeah, that's a good point. It can be a good way to "try before you buy".

As with everything else in this hobby there isn't a right or wrong answer, do what works for you

Amen to that!

[Gargaman]

If you are about to learning while you are building, as a begginer, breadboard is very useful. The mistakes you make on putting the circuit together teaches a lot. On the other side, you can easily lose focus on what you're doing given the possibilities. You got to have 100% confidence that the components will work, if not will be a frustration. How would you spot a rotten egg for a meal?

[WoundUp]

Thank you all for the replies. I really appreciate it.

I have a good friend who makes a bunch of electronics, including pedals sometimes, but only ever using premade pcbs. He describes it as "paint by numbers electronics". He's become quite excellent at soldering and has built a lot of things he gets good use out of, but he hasnt learnt much about how the circuits work.

That's no worry for him. But for me, I'm predominently motivated by learning, and messing around with breadboards is great for that. I do still use premade pcbs, though I still usually spend a lot of time looking over the schematic.

What works best for you will just depend on your interests, however, if you don't learn a bit about electronics debugging circuits that don't work will be much harder.

Thankfully I'm a certified automotive tech by trade so I've got a decent skillset for troubleshooting circuits and the tools to do so.

Checking whether I'd want to use that particular pedal is about the only other thing I came up with for why I'd need to breadboard something. I totally get the "solder by numbers". That's how it appears it works from the outside so it's good to have someone confirm that's basically how it works. Populate the board with the proper components and solder them in.

I really do appreciate it, yall. Thank you!

[Rob Strand]

So I've got a question. Since I'm less into developing my own circuits and more into just building already known good circuits, would it be easier just to order Pcb's and build those out instead of trying to build the circuit on a bb first, then ordering a PCB?

It depends how certain you are about the design not changing (in terms of tinkering tone) and how confident you are the design is correct.  If you need to tinker you need to breadboard part of the circuit, or at least accept the fact you might need to spend more money doing a second run.  Some larger designs are not possible to put on a breadboard.

For professional jobs the idea is always to aim at getting the design right on paper and having colleages review its correctness.  The idea is to build something which works.   Where possible unknowns would be breadboarded before committing the design.    Another technique is to add positions for extra parts on the PCB which give you more options.

You also have to factor in the difficulty of prototyping with SMD parts.

[Radical CJ]

... Some larger designs are not possible to put on a breadboard.

And that's the truth.

I've sometimes found myself with a circuit split into modules across 3 boards with wires going everywhere. Its messy and a hassle. I had the idea that it would be better to put together a suite of standard modules on pcbs or just perfboard (e.g. common tone stacks, power supplies/charge pumps, input/output buffers, gain stages, LFOs), and then just plug these in where needed so that the breadboard itself was reserved for the core of the circuit. But I haven't had enough free time to follow through and probably never will.   

[PRR]

Hubble telescope. Just saying.

[Rob Strand]

I've sometimes found myself with a circuit split into modules across 3 boards with wires going everywhere. Its messy and a hassle.

I woose-out at one breadboard.

Hubble telescope. Just saying.

It's amazing that error got through but even more amazing how they fixed it.

[deadastronaut]

i'm  a big breadboard fan....and they are very handy things to have,

especially if you make it true bypass, jack in /out, 3pdt toggle, led, dc jack socket...

now you have a bare bones pedal......experiment away...

and handy to test if your pcb / vero/ project is working , before you drill and label and box it up....

a suck it and see board if you like....


im used to breadboarding, because i do literally breadboard everything i do first.
tinker, tweak , mod, to taste...sometimes for months literally....this does take a lot longer, but in the end you get
what your ears want in the end...and thats surely what we all want. 

i would say invest in one anyway. a very handy tool. 

[WoundUp]

Well I posted this right on time.

My Fuzz Face circuit boards showed up today from Hyper MS Electronics UK. These things are wayyyy nicer than I expected. Ordered from ebay. Took maybe a week or 10 days to get here.

This is their stock image. The boards I got seem to be better quality than what's shown here



I do have one question. The board only has places for 2 pots, but I want to add one for bias, also. Do I just solder the wires to CW & wiper and then solder those in where the resistor would've been on the board? Then mount the pot to the housing like normal?

i'm  a big breadboard fan....and they are very handy things to have,

especially if you make it true bypass, jack in /out, 3pdt toggle, led, dc jack socket...

now you have a bare bones pedal......experiment away...

and handy to test if your pcb / vero/ project is working , before you drill and label and box it up....

a suck it and see board if you like....


im used to breadboarding, because i do literally breadboard everything i do first.
tinker, tweak , mod, to taste...sometimes for months literally....this does take a lot longer, but in the end you get
what your ears want in the end...and thats surely what we all want. 

i would say invest in one anyway. a very handy tool. 

Luckily I've already got all the breadboard stuff. I'm seriously considering making a setup like Brian Wampler uses. He's got his boards mounted on some tray with sheet metal "walls" around the breadboards with holes drilled in the sheet metal so he can mount pots, switches, jacks, etc...permanently to the board and doesn't have to wire those up every time he breadboards. I'll pull a pic from his breadboard vid and post it in a second.

Edit:





it's from this vid

[FiveseveN]

The boards I got seem to be better quality than what's shown here

I sure hope so. Do they at least have plated through holes or are they sticking to authentic 60's technology?

[WoundUp]

The boards I got seem to be better quality than what's shown here

I sure hope so. Do they at least have plated through holes or are they sticking to authentic 60's technology?

They're all plated on the opposite side. Pics below. The board itself is a pretty substantial piece. Way heavier and thicker than I expected it to be.

[Gargaman]

Well I posted this right on time.

My Fuzz Face circuit boards showed up today from Hyper MS Electronics UK. These things are wayyyy nicer than I expected. Ordered from ebay. Took maybe a week or 10 days to get here.

This is their stock image. The boards I got seem to be better quality than what's shown here



I do have one question. The board only has places for 2 pots, but I want to add one for bias, also. Do I just solder the wires to CW & wiper and then solder those in where the resistor would've been on the board? Then mount the pot to the housing like normal?

i'm  a big breadboard fan....and they are very handy things to have,

especially if you make it true bypass, jack in /out, 3pdt toggle, led, dc jack socket...

now you have a bare bones pedal......experiment away...

and handy to test if your pcb / vero/ project is working , before you drill and label and box it up....

a suck it and see board if you like....


im used to breadboarding, because i do literally breadboard everything i do first.
tinker, tweak , mod, to taste...sometimes for months literally....this does take a lot longer, but in the end you get
what your ears want in the end...and thats surely what we all want. 

i would say invest in one anyway. a very handy tool. 

Luckily I've already got all the breadboard stuff. I'm seriously considering making a setup like Brian Wampler uses. He's got his boards mounted on some tray with sheet metal "walls" around the breadboards with holes drilled in the sheet metal so he can mount pots, switches, jacks, etc...permanently to the board and doesn't have to wire those up every time he breadboards. I'll pull a pic from his breadboard vid and post it in a second.

Edit:





it's from this vid

Yes you can use the pot, you should connect the wiper and 1 or 3. But this will be 0 ohms when the pot is turned all the way to one of the sides and may not sound good or useful. About breadboard theres a Beavis audio project that is a protoboard monted with pots, etc.

[WoundUp]

Wow! I didn't realize how small those smallest soldering pads were on this board. I've never soldered anything that small. So, since I have 2 boards, I figured I would practice on the PNP board first since I'm building the NPN Silicon board to use.

Anyway. I went ahead and put a transistor in Q1 and soldered it into place. Using Kester 44, 62/36/2 silver electronics solder that's pretty small(0.020" or 0.5 mm), I just barely even dotted it and I'm worried I could've shorted one pad to the other with too much solder.

Is there any way to check this and see if I've caused a short somewhere?

Thanks.


Edit: I think I've figured out how to check it. If I check each leg vs the next point on the board from that leg and get continuity, I know the solder joint is good. Then if I switch to another leg, it should lose continuity as long as there aren't any shorts from one pad to the next. That's probably quite confusing lol. But I pretty sure it works like I think it does.

[Gargaman]

You can use a multimeter in the 'continuity mode' for testing shorts. Is also good pratice to use sockets for transistor because you may damage if it gets too hot, also for later changes if you want. It may be easier too because the pads on sockets may be more spaced

[WoundUp]

You can use a multimeter in the 'continuity mode' for testing shorts. Is also good pratice to use sockets for transistor because you may damage if it gets too hot, also for later changes if you want. It may be easier too because the pads on sockets may be more spaced

Yea I think I figured out a way to check it. I was editing the last post when you replied. So far, the transistor I just soldered in has no shorts so I think I'll be good to go. I did that one straight on the board because it looked to be the most difficult, with 3 pads that close to each other. So I figured if I can do that without mucking it up, the single pads shouldn't be a problem lol