Green Russian big muff clone not quite working

[snow123]

I HAVE A FUZZY COLLECTOR ON Q3!!

Could you tell us what the problem was?

I had to replace the 12k resistors.

That's a weird way to say no.

What was wrong with the 12k resistors? What made you think replacing them would help?
I'd like for you to come up with a conclusion on how replacing them could have fixed the 2nd clipping amplifier (Q3 fuzz)

i did a bunch of probing, and thought to replace some capacitors ('cause in one of my previous pedal builds, there was a volume issue and the issue was caused by a capacitor) but that didnt work, and i heard that the signal was dying in that area so i just thought to replaces those resistors, i also replaced the 100uf cap 'cause it looked pretty bad. and i think the signal just couldnt get through the resistors or something like that.

[snow123]

Also, here's my current soldering and stuff

[Kevin Mitchell]

Please stop bypassing my posts & advice.
And please flip Q4 the correct way.

Guys... I'm out. Hope you enjoyed the show.

[snow123]

i think the output booster isnt working properly

Do you have signal on each pin of the tone pot?  You should hear a HPF, LPF, and a mix of the two on pin 2. 

Is the same signal from pin 2 making it to the base of Q4?  I'll let you work out the rest.

yes.

[Phend]

I shouldn't interupt, by my green ruski worked right "in the box". What ever happened to "neat", OMG I know why I don't use smerf board, yuck.
Anyway good luck on yer build, once it is boxed up it will be a thing of beauty. (Don't laugh )

[ElectricDruid]

i did a bunch of probing, and thought to replace some capacitors ('cause in one of my previous pedal builds, there was a volume issue and the issue was caused by a capacitor) but that didnt work, and i heard that the signal was dying in that area so i just thought to replaces those resistors, i also replaced the 100uf cap 'cause it looked pretty bad. and i think the signal just couldnt get through the resistors or something like that.

This is why you're not having more success than you are. Your debugging method has very little method. "I thought to replace some capacitors, because once before the problem was a capacitor"? What the hell is that as logic?!? What happens if you remove a load of working capacitors and then solder some new ones in badly? Now you have new and different faults that weren't there before, and you basically have to go back to the beginning on the debugging. YOU NEED A KNOWN SITUATION. Randomly changing parts denies you that and makes it largely impossible to debug anything, because you don't know whether what you're seeing now is a result of the original faults or what you've changed since. Then you follow up the cqpacitors by changing a load of resistors, compunding the problems. So now we have a lot of untested capacitors and untested resistors in the circuit. That's a lot of steps *backwards*.

OK, so where exactly are we now?

Have you still got a proper fuzz signal at the collector of both fuzz stages?
Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?

If all that's ok, then we're looking at the the final output booster stage. But if any of those aren't giving a good result, we need to go back and fix that first. We can get this sorted but we need clear unambiguous answers and we need you to not change things from one time to the next.

[snow123]

Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?

do you mean that the tone pot changes what audio i get at c3?

[snow123]

i did a bunch of probing, and thought to replace some capacitors ('cause in one of my previous pedal builds, there was a volume issue and the issue was caused by a capacitor) but that didnt work, and i heard that the signal was dying in that area so i just thought to replaces those resistors, i also replaced the 100uf cap 'cause it looked pretty bad. and i think the signal just couldnt get through the resistors or something like that.

This is why you're not having more success than you are. Your debugging method has very little method. "I thought to replace some capacitors, because once before the problem was a capacitor"? What the hell is that as logic?!? What happens if you remove a load of working capacitors and then solder some new ones in badly? Now you have new and different faults that weren't there before, and you basically have to go back to the beginning on the debugging. YOU NEED A KNOWN SITUATION. Randomly changing parts denies you that and makes it largely impossible to debug anything, because you don't know whether what you're seeing now is a result of the original faults or what you've changed since. Then you follow up the cqpacitors by changing a load of resistors, compunding the problems. So now we have a lot of untested capacitors and untested resistors in the circuit. That's a lot of steps *backwards*.

OK, so where exactly are we now?

Have you still got a proper fuzz signal at the collector of both fuzz stages?
Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?

If all that's ok, then we're looking at the the final output booster stage. But if any of those aren't giving a good result, we need to go back and fix that first. We can get this sorted but we need clear unambiguous answers and we need you to not change things from one time to the next.

at q2s collector im just getting a boosted signal.

[snow123]

Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?

do you mean that the tone pot changes what audio i get at c3?

if so, then yes but it also lowers the volume when i turn the tone knob past 12-o-clock.

[ElectricDruid]

Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?

do you mean that the tone pot changes what audio i get at c3?

Yes, absolutely. That's the point of the Tone pot, after all. You should have a trebley tone at one end, and a bassy tone at the other, and a mid-scooped tone in the middle, more or less. It should be more *tonal* changes than *volume* changes. Volume changes might indicate that it's not quite right.

[ElectricDruid]

at q2s collector im just getting a boosted signal.

This is the "Q2" from the stripboard layout, right? So that's the first fuzz stage? And now it's not fuzzing, it's just giving a bit of boost?

I'm extrapolating because you're not providing much information, but if so, that's exactly what I meant about going backwards. We *had* managed to debug this thing as far as the Tone control, but now (I think) you're telling me that the first fuzz stage doesn't work any more. I'm not that surprised if you mucked about with it and replaced a load of parts that didn't need replacing. That's what happens and that's why that's not a good idea. But don't worry about it, and don't get embarrassed about it. Sh!t happens, mostly when you least want it to! It's a learning experience, and we just plough on.

If the fuzz on that stage isn't working,  that sounds like the diodes aren't properly connected. Check that the 1uF cap is properly soldered. A bad joint there would take the diodes out of the ciruit and kill the fuzz.

I was hoping for something more like:

Have you still got a proper fuzz signal at the collector of both fuzz stages?

Yes, it sounds good.

Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?

No, the sound is weak / Yes, I can turn the Tone pot and hear the sound change.

[snow123]

Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?

do you mean that the tone pot changes what audio i get at c3?

Yes, absolutely. That's the point of the Tone pot, after all. You should have a trebley tone at one end, and a bassy tone at the other, and a mid-scooped tone in the middle, more or less. It should be more *tonal* changes than *volume* changes. Volume changes might indicate that it's not quite right.

ok, so that means theres something wrong since when i turn the tone up past 12 o clock it starts to lose some volume.

[snow123]

at q2s collector im just getting a boosted signal.

This is the "Q2" from the stripboard layout, right? So that's the first fuzz stage? And now it's not fuzzing, it's just giving a bit of boost?

I'm extrapolating because you're not providing much information, but if so, that's exactly what I meant about going backwards. We *had* managed to debug this thing as far as the Tone control, but now (I think) you're telling me that the first fuzz stage doesn't work any more. I'm not that surprised if you mucked about with it and replaced a load of parts that didn't need replacing. That's what happens and that's why that's not a good idea. But don't worry about it, and don't get embarrassed about it. Sh!t happens, mostly when you least want it to! It's a learning experience, and we just plough on.

If the fuzz on that stage isn't working,  that sounds like the diodes aren't properly connected. Check that the 1uF cap is properly soldered. A bad joint there would take the diodes out of the ciruit and kill the fuzz.

I was hoping for something more like:

Have you still got a proper fuzz signal at the collector of both fuzz stages?

Yes, it sounds good.

Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?

No, the sound is weak / Yes, I can turn the Tone pot and hear the sound change.

i just improved the soldering and soldered the diodes to the board instead of using sockets and now i hear more of an overdrive sound on the collector. and yes im using the q2 on the layout

[snow123]

at q2s collector im just getting a boosted signal.

This is the "Q2" from the stripboard layout, right? So that's the first fuzz stage? And now it's not fuzzing, it's just giving a bit of boost?

I'm extrapolating because you're not providing much information, but if so, that's exactly what I meant about going backwards. We *had* managed to debug this thing as far as the Tone control, but now (I think) you're telling me that the first fuzz stage doesn't work any more. I'm not that surprised if you mucked about with it and replaced a load of parts that didn't need replacing. That's what happens and that's why that's not a good idea. But don't worry about it, and don't get embarrassed about it. Sh!t happens, mostly when you least want it to! It's a learning experience, and we just plough on.

If the fuzz on that stage isn't working,  that sounds like the diodes aren't properly connected. Check that the 1uF cap is properly soldered. A bad joint there would take the diodes out of the ciruit and kill the fuzz.

I was hoping for something more like:

Have you still got a proper fuzz signal at the collector of both fuzz stages?

Yes, it sounds good.

Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?

No, the sound is weak / Yes, I can turn the Tone pot and hear the sound change.

i just improved the soldering and soldered the diodes to the board instead of using sockets and now i hear more of an overdrive sound on the collector. and yes im using the q2 on the layout

uhh i just tested again and it went back to a clean boost. wtf. like when i turn my amp on and off it goes back to a boost and when i turn it on and off again it goes to an overdrive thing.

[snow123]

might just be a grounding issue since the ground wire just came off of the circuit board lol

[andy-h-h]

Just on sockets - I used to use the same ones you have.  I stopped using them because I found them to often be the cause of problems.  I found they are only really OK for a couple of changes at best, and then they become loose, causing issues.   That's my experience anyway.   

I tend to breadboard first, and then solder directly to the board.  If you have no plans on testing / swapping out different parts, I really don't see the point of sockets. 

[snow123]

Just on sockets - I used to use the same ones you have.  I stopped using them because I found them to often be the cause of problems.  I found they are only really OK for a couple of changes at best, and then they become loose, causing issues.   That's my experience anyway.   

I tend to breadboard first, and then solder directly to the board.  If you have no plans on testing / swapping out different parts, I really don't see the point of sockets.

tbh i just use them to avoid overheating transistors and sometimes i like swapping out the transistors.

[snow123]

i guess the collectors have a "fuzz"y signal but not like super gnarly big muff fuzz

[snow123]

well im not getting any audio on c5, and i checked the soldering a few times and its still not working.

[duck_arse]

P.S.
Sorry @snow123 but I think you've managed to turn the most well-intenioned guys (like Kevin & Tom) into ironic/sarcastic blackguards..

.... and some of us are naturally blackguardings.





with all your changes and still having faults, please retake and post all transistor voltages again.