Aion Tri Vibe (Runoffgroove) - Troubleshooting Help

[Toy Sun]

Hi,
Super frustrating. I rocked it before I boxed it. Worked great out of the box. Carefully boxed it, except for (here is a clue) perhaps my mounting system flexed the PCB when I cranked it down?

No signal/sound when the effect is engaged. Bypass works.

Audio probe - signal doesn't go very far: Signal at pin 3 of IC1a, weak/distorted at pin 2. I would expect to have signal at pin 1. Nothing. No signal at the pin 1 side of R2. Replaced R2 (that's why it's funky now)

Checked all my soldering (photos attached). Replace IC1 with a different one. No bent pins/socket issues that I can see.

Is my next step capturing all voltages?

Thanks in advance,
John

[antonis]

Is my next step capturing all voltages?

Quite right..
Starting from VA, VB and IC1A pin 2 & 3..

[Toy Sun]

Here are the values.


IN    DC in jack      9.41   V
D1   Cathode      9.14   V
R37   22r      8.77   V
C14         8.75   V
            
IC1   NE5332   1   1.31   V
IC1   NE5332   2   0.72   V
IC1   NE5332   3   4.39   V
IC1   NE5332   4   0.50   V
IC1   NE5332   5   0.28   V
IC1   NE5332   6   1.14   V
IC1   NE5332   7   0.62   V
IC1   NE5332   8   8.82   V
            
IC2   TL062P   1   0.72   V
IC2   TL062P   2   0.72   V
IC2   TL062P   3   4.38   V
IC2   TL062P   4   0.50   V
IC2   TL062P   5   0.28   V
IC2   TL062P   6   1.14   V
IC2   TL062P   7   0.62   V
IC2   TL062P   8   8.80   V
            
IC3   TL022   1   0.57   V
IC3   TL022   2   0.57   V
IC3   TL022   3   0.57   V
IC3   TL022   4   0.57   V
IC3   TL022   5   0.57   V
IC3   TL022   6   0.57   V
IC3   TL022   7   0.57   V
IC3   TL022   8   0.57   V
            
IC3   LM13700N   1   0.62   V
IC3   LM13700N   2   1.83   V
IC3   LM13700N   3   1.14   V
IC3   LM13700N   4   1.14   V
IC3   LM13700N   5   modulating zero to 1.90   mV
IC3   LM13700N   6   0.50   mV
IC3   LM13700N   7   modulating zero to 1.90   mV
IC3   LM13700N   8   0.54   V
IC3   LM13700N   9   0.35   V
IC3   LM13700N   10   modulating zero to 1.90   mV
IC3   LM13700N   11   8.88   V
IC3   LM13700N   12   modulating zero to 1.90   mV
IC3   LM13700N   13   1.11   V
IC3   LM13700N   14   1.12   V
IC3   LM13700N   15   1.18   V
IC3   LM13700N   16   0.61   V
            
D2   Cathode       0.73   V
D3   Cathode      0.40   mV
D3   Anode +      0.72   V
D4   Cathode      0.61   V
D4   Anode +      1.14   V
D5   Cathode       0.76   V
D5   Anode +      1.14   V



My first time doing this kind of troubleshooting so any feedback on the format/presentation, nomenclature, is appreciated, too.

Thanks,
John

[bluebunny]

You have no power on IC3.  Take a careful look in that area.

[duck_arse]

You have no power on IC3.  Take a careful look in that area.

there seems no ground in any of your measures. check your wiring between DC socket and board. how do you take your voltage measures, please describe the procedure - meter settings, probe positions, etc?

[Toy Sun]

Oops - looks like spreadsheet autofill made IC3 look like it was totally not there...
I think this changes the story:

IN    DC in jack      9.41   V
D1   Cathode      9.14   V
R37   22r      8.77   V
C14         8.75   V
            
IC1   NE5332   1   1.31   V
IC1   NE5332   2   0.72   V
IC1   NE5332   3   4.39   V
IC1   NE5332   4   0.50   V
IC1   NE5332   5   0.28   V
IC1   NE5332   6   1.14   V
IC1   NE5332   7   0.62   V
IC1   NE5332   8   8.82   V
            
IC2   TL062P   1   0.72   V
IC2   TL062P   2   0.72   V
IC2   TL062P   3   4.38   V
IC2   TL062P   4   0.50   V
IC2   TL062P   5   0.28   V
IC2   TL062P   6   1.14   V
IC2   TL062P   7   0.62   V
IC2   TL062P   8   8.80   V
            
IC3   TL022   1   0.57   V
IC3   TL022   2   8.12   V
IC3   TL022   3   0.72   V
IC3   TL022   4   0.50   V
IC3   TL022   5   0.28   V
IC3   TL022   6   1.14   V
IC3   TL022   7   0.62   V
IC3   TL022   8   8.82   V
            
IC4   LM13700N   1   0.62   V
IC4   LM13700N   2   1.83   V
IC4   LM13700N   3   1.14   V
IC4   LM13700N   4   1.14   V
IC4   LM13700N   5   modulating zero to 1.90   mV
IC4   LM13700N   6   0.50   mV
IC4   LM13700N   7   modulating zero to 1.90   mV
IC4   LM13700N   8   0.54   V
IC4   LM13700N   9   0.35   V
IC4   LM13700N   10   modulating zero to 1.90   mV
IC4   LM13700N   11   8.88   V
IC4   LM13700N   12   modulating zero to 1.90   mV
IC4   LM13700N   13   1.11   V
IC4   LM13700N   14   1.12   V
IC4   LM13700N   15   1.18   V
IC4   LM13700N   16   0.61   V
            
D2   Cathode       0.73   V
D3   Cathode      0.40   mV
D3   Anode +      0.72   V
D4   Cathode      0.61   V
D4   Anode +      1.14   V
D5   Cathode       0.76   V
D5   Anode +      1.14   V


Same for the grounding "issue"?
Below is a photo of my methodology - VOM set on DCV, negative connected to DC in -   probing with positive. I have continuity on all the grounds (well, a really good sampling) all the ICs OK to ground, all the I/O, etc...

[bluebunny]

Weird.  You may have continuity amongst all your "grounds", but none of them is at 0V. 

[Toy Sun]

I connected a different (known good) PSU and get this (working from the DC in to the 3PDT board)

Right at DC jack = 0mV
Physical I/O jacks = 0mv
3PDT Board in = .2mV
3PDT Board to main PSU = .4mv
Pin 6 of IC 4 = .5mV


Thanks
J

[duck_arse]

set your meter on 2V DC or 20V DC range, doesn't matter, and short the red and black probes together. the meter should read 0.00V  --  this is your zero. then when you measure the voltage between the DC jack (-) and the pin 4 of the opamps, you should get that same zero reading. if you zero at 0.00V but read at 0.50V, you have a grounding fault somewhere.

[Toy Sun]

Hi,
Not exactly sure what, but it was something on the 3PDT board (which explains why it worked out of the box - lesson learned, put together the entire system before boxing). Really couldn't track it down, but in probing, I burned up either D1, R37 or C14 (smoke). Took the 3PDT out of the circuit completely and back in business.

So I give myself a passing "C" grade - got it to work, but never really found the source of the short. There was always .1mV of current between DC in - and the ground at C14. Checked all my connections and they seemed fine, but maybe a miniscule solder bridge?

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction, without that guidance I would be stuck.

Best,
John

[Toy Sun]

One last question on this (I sincerely hope). I still want to get the input power filtering that Aion has, even though I'm having to ditch the Aion 3PDT board. The schematic lists "Bypass Ground" as a different thing than "Ground". Any idea what that is?

[r080]

I think he is just saying C14 is on the bypass board. The BOM calls it out as a ceramic cap, so it might be there to reduce any high frequency (RF) noise coming in the power supply. Electrolytics tend not to be as good at high frequencies. You could either do without it or solder the 22R resistor, reverse protection diode, and C14 on a little perfboard, or find a way to get it directly on the power jack.

[Toy Sun]

Thanks!
Yeah, I did a bit more checking and all of the grounds on the 3DPT board are connected together ('doh) so I guess ground is ground.

J

[aion]

Yep, ground is ground. I give them different names within the schematics (i.e. bypass ground, chassis ground, power ground and main ground) so the PCB software doesn't think they need to be connected within the design. But they all connect together in at least one place once the wiring is completed.

[Toy Sun]

Nice to get a response from the Creator themselves! FYI, the pedal sounds great and Aion continues to put out fantastic products - I'm a fan.

[fryingpan]

A question. Would the Tri Vibe be suitable for line level signals? Rod Elliott designed a similar pedal (two all-pass filters, quasi-sinusoidal LFO) with LDRs because JFETs would never be suitable for strong signals, OTAs too have little headroom if I'm not mistaken.

[fryingpan]

Anyone? I have read the specs of the LM13700N and it would appear that they could be up to the task, provided the differential voltage is kept low.

[antonis]

Breadboard IS your buddy..!!!
(more than any simulator in most cases..)

[fryingpan]

Why buy parts and go through the trouble of breadboarding stuff if it's not going to work anyway?

[antonis]

Why buy parts and go through the trouble of breadboarding stuff if it's not going to work anyway?

Just to feel same *&^*&^ like the one from who you wish to get an answer..!!