Faux Rotary .... Flanging or dual band modulation?

[Steben]

Hi Guys,

I'm wondering what exactly makes a rotary sim a good rotary sim.
Is it the dual band (horn and speaker) modulation? Would using a phaser on the treble and a flanger on the lows be better?
Flanging seems the most noted simple effect as faux rotary. But that is used over the total spectrum.

I still have a defect Electric Mistress around .... perhaps looking for that first ...

[Mark Hammer]

Not to be snarky, Steven, but this question/debate likely has some several thousand posts here, many of which I'm sure have ended up shaping the nature of commercial pedals, designed by industry folks lurking here.

It's always a good topic, but you may get further ahead, faster, by combing through the archives with the search function.  Some folks will likely post links to the relevant threads to save you some time.

[Steben]

Not to be snarky, Steven, but this question/debate likely has some several thousand posts here, many of which I'm sure have ended up shaping the nature of commercial pedals, designed by industry folks lurking here.

It's always a good topic, but you may get further ahead, faster, by combing through the archives with the search function.  Some folks will likely post links to the relevant threads to save you some time.

allright

[Mark Hammer]

Again, not at all wishing to crush your enthusiasm or interest.  There's just a LOT of existing content here because many folks love rotary speakers every bit as much as you do.

[Steben]

Again, not at all wishing to crush your enthusiasm or interest.  There's just a LOT of existing content here because many folks love rotary speakers every bit as much as you do.

found a lot of stuff (especially leslie theory, I found a list of you with some elements), but not just yet what I tried to find  especially the different nature of modulation of the treble side and the bass side. Perhaps there is none.

[idy]

A splitter mixer pedal with your two favorite modulations+eqs and you can try it all out without tears. Those things are golden...

[ElectricDruid]

I've been thinking of having a crack at this problem too, mostly as an example application of my Rotary LFO chip, described here:

https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=127175.0

I was going to do it as a dual band chorus, basically. Split the input signal at 800Hz, send the two signals to separate chorus circuits driven each by their own Rotary LFO chip, mix the whole lot back together. Details like how much straight signal you should mix in, and how much (if any) feedback the chorus should have are to be tried out when I get a prototype together. I was going to hardwire the LFO speeds to give realistic Fast and Slow speeds and similarly with the Ramp Up and Ramp Down times - set them to something realistic for a genuine Leslie cabinet. Obviously you don't have to, but it keeps the number of knobs under control for a prototype/proof-of-concept and people can easily make it over-complicated themselves if they want to!

[Steben]

I've been thinking of having a crack at this problem too, mostly as an example application of my Rotary LFO chip, described here:

https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=127175.0

I was going to do it as a dual band chorus, basically. Split the input signal at 800Hz, send the two signals to separate chorus circuits driven each by their own Rotary LFO chip, mix the whole lot back together. Details like how much straight signal you should mix in, and how much (if any) feedback the chorus should have are to be tried out when I get a prototype together. I was going to hardwire the LFO speeds to give realistic Fast and Slow speeds and similarly with the Ramp Up and Ramp Down times - set them to something realistic for a genuine Leslie cabinet. Obviously you don't have to, but it keeps the number of knobs under control for a prototype/proof-of-concept and people can easily make it over-complicated themselves if they want to!

I do not care for any Ramp option frankly . The splitting is something clearly to pursue.
You'ld go for chorusses? Not flangers? I mean: isn't chorus the longer delay ranges?
Now I think of it: what about 2 vibratos for each band (bass / treble) might be better than 2 x dry + wet... In a rotating speaker there is hardly a dry, is there? Oh well, a very muffled one perhaps.... Too much dry clean is perhaps what gives a sim away...

Or a triple signal with low vibrato, high vibrato and bandpass dry?


I'm stunned I did not find ANY vid on youtube about running vibrato pedals in parallel... really stunned
Why didn't I buy 2 behringer vibratos years ago 

[ElectricDruid]

I do not care for any Ramp option frankly .

Fair enough. Tastes differ. For me, any "rotary speaker effect" that doesn't incude the ramping from one speed to the other is hopelessly incomplete, but I'm a keyboard player (in as much as I'm any musician at all)

The splitting is something clearly to pursue.

Yeah, I think that's a key part of the sound too. The two different rates for low and high frequencies are a big part of it.

You'd go for chorusses? Not flangers? I mean: isn't chorus the longer delay ranges?

I'd thought "chorus" but I'm not committed to a particular time range - that needs a few experiments. Maybe it'll finish up closer to "flanger" territory, or maybe closer to "chorus" or maybe somewhere in the middle.

Now I think of it: what about 2 vibratos for each band (bass / treble) might be better than 2 x dry + wet... In a rotating speaker there is hardly a dry, is there? Oh well, a very muffled one perhaps.... Too much dry clean is perhaps what gives a sim away...

I can't see how a genuine rotary has any "dry" signal in it at all, so yes, I agree - I'd keep the level of that low, at least as a first guess.

Or a triple signal with low vibrato, high vibrato and bandpass dry?

Maybe, but it's getting less authentic, in theory. But perhaps it sounds good in practice. All these things are worth trying out.

I'm stunned I did not find ANY vid on youtube about running vibrato pedals in parallel... really stunned
Why didn't I buy 2 behringer vibratos years ago 

Yeah, that'd be an easy way to run a few experiments...

[Steben]

Digital emulation of some soft organ sounds through 2 split FX channels
One has lowpass 800hz and vibrato, the other highpass 800hz and vibrato.
NO DRY signal.

mid rate
https://sndup.net/3qxn

high rate
https://sndup.net/8zgm

The higher the rate, the higher the depth to sound natural. Makes sense, given the physics.

low rate, low depth
https://sndup.net/8zgm

[ElectricDruid]

Humm, more "House of the Rising Sun" than "Green Onions". Which I suppose means it still sounds more like vibrato than rotary speaker.

[Steben]

Humm, more "House of the Rising Sun" than "Green Onions". Which I suppose means it still sounds more like vibrato than rotary speaker.

Weeeeellllllll.... IMHO not so much.... I tested it againts vibrato only as well.... The source sound here is a triple triangle oscillator not an organ... does a lot.
Another thing is the quality of the vibrato. Digitally means pitch, analog means shifting delay.... Huge difference probably.