Is time ripe for emulations of emulations ?

[dschwartz]

Keep in mind that you can capture the impulse response of an analog cabsim just as well.
So if one can do all the things the other can, plus much more, where's the contest?

That's right!, in fact I've had users that profile our cabsims into their fractals LOL.

[Vivek]

That's right!, in fact I've had users that profile our cabsims into their fractals LOL.

Analog cabsims are of course, more basic, but just because we don't bother to make enough filtering peaks and notches. I think good IRs are superior to analog cabsims for recording, but for live playing, i like analog cabsims more.

What these fractal users are doing sounds counterintuitive

and contradicts your earlier statement that Analog Cab Sims are basic since we do not implement sufficient peaks and notches.

[Steben]

https://www.angelfire.com/droid/burvenich/humbucker_100_.mp3

What do you think this is? besides imperfect playing

Any ideas, Vivek?

[Vivek]

No idea, Steven


Please tell us !

[dschwartz]

That's right!, in fact I've had users that profile our cabsims into their fractals LOL.

Analog cabsims are of course, more basic, but just because we don't bother to make enough filtering peaks and notches. I think good IRs are superior to analog cabsims for recording, but for live playing, i like analog cabsims more.

What these fractal users are doing sounds counterintuitive

and contradicts your earlier statement that Analog Cab Sims are basic since we do not implement sufficient peaks and notches.

Yep..
At the end, what matters is what sounds good to your ear..ad sometimes that's contradictory.

[marcelomd]

I've been quoting this, but I can't remember who said it first:

"Tone is a complex number. There's a real part and an imaginary part. All important."

[Steben]

No idea, Steven


Please tell us !

https://www.angelfire.com/droid/burvenich/single_coil_100_.mp3

Just saying: it is two transistors blown up with pre and post filtering

[Ripthorn]

In the early 80's Marshall designed opamp versions of their JCM800 line. I owned a Marshall 5210 combo for a couple decades and it's drive channel is a three opamp affair that is meant to mimic the drive channel of the Marshall 4210 JCM800 combo. Is it accurate? I don't know. Does it sound good? Yep. I took the drive channel and made it into a pedal after I sold the amp.

I request you to post link to best schematic for the Marshall 5210. I would love to try and understand and analyze that schematic. Thanks

I can attach my Eagle schematic after I get home from work. Most of the schematics I found online were a little fuzzy and hard to read. It's rather simple, if I recall. Just 3 opamp stages, I think.

[Steben]

[Steben]

Lead 12

[Vivek]

Thanks Steven

Any special tricks or point in these schematics that make them special or very different ?

[Steben]

Thanks Steven

Any special tricks or point in these schematics that make then special or very different ?

The only main factor is again EQ, dominantly high pass. In case of the Lead 12, split over two preamp stages. At full gain setting we have two times -3dB point at +/- 340 Hz. This means a sharper high pass below 340Hz than 1 x a Tube screamer stage but comparable above that point.

They do not have DC decoupling caps at the input. That's worth a special note. Of course the circuit features symmetrical supply, but still any source with DC element will disrupt the lot.

[Fancy Lime]

I've been quoting this, but I can't remember who said it first:

"Tone is a complex number. There's a real part and an imaginary part. All important."

That used to be my signature but I don't remember where I first heard it, either. When in doubt, always ascribe such wisdoms to Albert Einstein, Abraham Lincoln, or Confucius 

[teemuk]

"Bright" hi-pass voicing prior to distortion, tonestack notch in same ballbark of frequencies, and don't forget the Marshall logo and cosmetic packaging. Recipe isn't all that different in MOSFET Leads, JCM9000 DR, or 8100 Valvestates. I would still say that the thing that sets all of them apart from countless array of similar amps, and makes them feature that archetypal Marshall tone, is the Marshall logo. 

[Steben]

"Bright" hi-pass voicing prior to distortion, tonestack notch in same ballbark of frequencies, and don't forget the Marshall logo and cosmetic packaging. Recipe isn't all that different in MOSFET Leads, JCM9000 DR, or 8100 Valvestates. I would still say that the thing that sets all of them apart from countless array of similar amps, and makes them feature that archetypal Marshall tone, is the Marshall logo. 

Gold and black. Quite a powerful gimick.

[Steben]

TLC 2262 transfer curve


Well you know

[teemuk]

^ Yes. Compared to, for example, 5532 or TL70x series opamps the transfer characteristic is very tidy and symmetric. e.g. 5532 is asymmetric with a weird "kink" and TL70x even phase-reverses at one extreme. Behaviour of generic opamps is usually just unpredictable when driven past common mode input range or bumping into limits of rail voltage.

[r080]

That's right!, in fact I've had users that profile our cabsims into their fractals LOL.

Analog cabsims are of course, more basic, but just because we don't bother to make enough filtering peaks and notches. I think good IRs are superior to analog cabsims for recording, but for live playing, i like analog cabsims more.

What these fractal users are doing sounds counterintuitive

and contradicts your earlier statement that Analog Cab Sims are basic since we do not implement sufficient peaks and notches.

It may not be too contradictory, as he mentioned the preference for analog in live playing. If I were recording a 10 song record, running 3-5 guitar tracks deep, a more complex IR (or just a real speaker) makes perfect sense to prevent ear fatigue. However, if I am playing live as a single guitar, a simple analog cab sim might provide the in-your-face sound I need to cut through.