Veroboard - tips for reliability for giging/live use?

[Sesh]

Hi there

So now after a long covid-break from gigging which I used to learn DIY and build some 30 pedals on vero, some of which I intend to use on my live board, I want to go through the ones I'll use to make sure they are gig-ready.

I've taken some to the practice space. Most are perfectly fine like my Hudson Broadcast clone and my Earthquaker Ghost Echo. Some I had issues with while boxing them (but the issues were fixed and they are otherwise perfectly fine) and I fear they'll crap out when I stomp it live.
Especially since vero isn't held in place with pots like pcbs, has lots more wire etc.

What are some of your tips for making veroboard pedals extra live-reliable?

I once read a quote by Paul Trombetta (the "Bone Machine" is one of my favorite fuzz-builds!), in which he describes how he uses the goop usually associated with boutique builders trying to make tracing difficult to isolate and "fasten" into place on his custom built vero pedals.

What about PVC tape for isolation? I use that right now.

I use open jacks - should I use closed? Shorten all wires to an absolute minimum to keep board even better in place?

[GibsonGM]

I use basically a non-conductive packing foam to make sure the board can't move around, and to prevent it from shorting on the enclosure.  I use either that or cardboard hot-glued to my enclosure bottom to insulate the solder side.  I build on perf, but same difference.

Try to use stranded wire for offboard stuff like runs to jacks, switches and so on. It will flex for a much longer time prior to breaking.   Make sure jacks have a washer and are tight....use a ground connection on the input jack as usual, but make sure output jack has a ground too!  If the jack comes loose it will be horrific without that extra gnd there for security.

Other than that...shake 'em up, make sure they're solid and not going to crap out on you, and have at it  

As for jacks, I don't think it matters. Whatever floats your boat. For amplifiers, running at higher voltages, insulated jacks are suggested (better to fend off ground loops), but at 9 or 18V I don't see an issue.

[kaycee]

I use vero almost exclusively. I contact glue stiff card to the box interior and then hot melt glue the vero onto that, running lines down the side to secure. I also tack the power and ground wires at the board and power socket with hot glue and use nylon ties to keep wires together. I prefer solid core wire.

My sold pedals have been toured, played BBC sessions, recorded, used as stock in recording studios and even done Glastonbury in the past and held out. So done properly they can be reliable.

[iainpunk]

having post directly soldered to the board is less reliable than people think. i used to do this with perf board sometimes, but none of those still work. if you stand on a pot accidentally, you can damage the solder pads or the pcb tracks, and repair of that is quite annoying, especially if you don't see the hairline fracture that disconnects the track pieces.

the most sturdy attachment is an m3 bolt and a pcb standoff, but having the pcb just ''hanging loose'' inside the box never broke on me either, just wrap in electrical tape.

i repaired a fuzz face clone for a friend once, it used black goop to both obscure the component values and transistor types, and to attach the board to the enclosure bottom. there also was a baggie of the Devil's Lettuce inside the pedal, which he had no idea about.

cheers

[MrStab]

For future reference, a 3mm (M3) mounting hole will fit in a 3x3 space on veroboard, and shaving off just the copper with a drill bit on the underside will allow you to use metal fasteners without shorting issues. You can often get away with just a couple of bolts if the board is small.

Do you lose space in a 1590A doing this, or should the space for it have existed in the first place? *Stern look*

[R.G.]

The less there is any possibility of repeated bending, the more reliable it will be.

Best is hard mounting the board to the box, like the pots, switches and jacks. In this case, the only bending on the wires is from inertia bending the wires themselves. As an aside, stranded wire is always more tolerant of flexing and bending than solid wire of the same gauge.

The hard fixing for the board can be anything that holds it in place: standoffs and screws, a layer of cardboard with hold downs, insulating foam, double-sided foam tape, velcro, whatever holds it in place in the box without letting it short to the box or pots, switches, and jacks.

Anything that doesn't fix the board to the box in some way will let the board move around relative to the box when the box is moved or when there is vibration (ever play LOUD?  ) and this bends the wires and puts repetitive stress on the joints at the ends of the wires. Copper wires are not very good springs, so letting the board "float" in the box held only by the wires is going to be of lower reliability than having things all tied down. Sure, it's possible to get away with a floating board for a while, maybe a very long time if there's not much vibration or movement. But it is definitely getting away with it, not good practice for gigging and road use.

Likewise, the board itself needs to be built with mounting in mind. Design standoff points in first, not last. Or design in mounting pads for double-sided foam tape, or glued-on rubber standoff pads, or something else you invent. Then build the board. When building the board, take extra care to do good solder joints, not flakey, cold lap joints. Some kind of glue/potting is a huge help on perfboard and/or vero board designs, but the better potted they are, the harder they are to service. Fully resin potted or gooped boards are not usually reparable, so if you plan to goop or pot, make two boards, test them both, then pot one and install it into the box. Keep the second for a spare. Yeah, this doubles the board cost, but the majority of cost in any pedal is the box, jacks, pots and switches, not the parts that go on the board. Not gooping the saved spare lets you modify it if needed, then goop it for service.

Enclosing a floating board in something that is both resilient and non-conductive is OK. Ish. I've done it, as we all have. Wrapping it in electrical tape, enclosing the board in an overcoat of plastic foam, wrapping in paper, cardboard, etc. all work for a while, maybe long enough for light use. It's another form of getting away with it. The principle is the same: hold things so they don't flex, and don't put repetitive stress/bending on the wires.

[PRR]

> Wrapping it in electrical tape

My observation is that electrical tape over any sharp tip WILL eventually work its way through. (That's why there used to be friction tape.) Duct-tape is worse.

Milk-bottle plastic is far more robust. Bleach-bottle plastic even better (but rinse WELL and air for a week, Chlorine is hell on e-parts). Some laundry detergent bottles could mosh in broken glass. Cut a "taco" out of your chosen bottle and put one wrap of electrical tape around that.

[R.G.]

Your observation is correct. In fact, most plastics will eventually flow under pressure, and point loading is a great way to make this happen faster. The only question is how long it resists flowing under stress. Electrical tape is vinyl that is deliberately made soft, so it flows well under point stress.
Plastics that are thermo-set, or filled with mineral fillers, or both, are much more resistant to flowing. Mix in some glass micro spheres, mica powder, carbon fiber, glass fiber, stuff like that, and it gets much more resistant to failing by flowing.
Even better, skip plastic wrapping and properly tie down the board so it doesn't flutter in the breeze. 

[andy-h-h]

Plastic locking standoffs with self adhesive backs work for me.  Although this requires some space in the box and on the vero board to do this.   Not many vero layouts allow for this, and there is a general obsession for making the smallest layouts possible that often leave no room for mounting (which I'm also guilty of on occasion).   

[anotherjim]

Have to say I have zero love of things wrapped up in tape or glued in. It's a pain to remove in future if you have to.

[R.G.]

Have to say I have zero love of things wrapped up in tape or glued in. It's a pain to remove in future if you have to.

True. One of the fundamental tenets of engineering is - design it to work forever; if you can't do that, design it to be easy to fix.

[amptramp]

The only place where veroboard is susceptible to a problem that a PCB is not is where you use a drill to separate sections of a trace.  If you leave any cutting swarf there, it is just waiting for the most inopportune moment to short out to an adjacent trace.  But none of us would do that, would we?  I tend to prefer hard mounting schemes like standoffs even if you have to epoxy the standoff to the enclosure because you don't want any hardware showing.

Potting is for plants.

[blackieNYC]

For socketed ICs, I use a little hot glue to hold them in place.  It's important to squirt a little glue underneath the edge of the socket, and then wrap a little glue over the top of the chip.  All this is done with a very small amount of glue.  For chip changes and service, it's easy to pick off.  And it doesn't conduct. 

[pacealot]

And it doesn't conduct.

So long as the glue's not made of cheese!

https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=128264.0

[PRR]

.....fundamental tenets of engineering is - design it to work forever; if you can't do that, design it to be easy to fix.

Just ask Apple!

[Willypp]

I had a pedalboard that consisted solely of vero builds without issue.  I use 3m double sided foam tape to stick the vero to the enclosure, it's pretty tough to remove.

[Sesh]

Totally forgot to say thanks for all the tips

I've been through the wiring, shortening it where I could. Made sure every wire had mechanical connections to switches and jacks before (re)soldering.

The tip with foam to stop it from moving and shorting is brillant - I had a bunch of acoustic foam lying around that I use. Also used small strips to keep pot and switch wires together - much neater, especially when using non-solid core wire like I do.