the TRUTH about "guitar tone caps"

[GibsonGM]

I've just taken to not putting tone controls in many of my more recent guitar builds. I build 2 or 3 a year and find I don't really use the tone control at all unless it's something like a telecaster.

man, you need to try hi and lo pass filters on a guitar. makes a ridiculous difference, particularly with distortion

You should make a quick vid on this, jimi...I know I for one would be interested in variations on the basic theme.   I only use them on my Tele bridge pup for obvious reasons, or to do some woman tone on the Strat. But they've always been kinda....not useful... in my world and I know I'm not alone! 

[iainpunk]

yes, a High pass (bass cut) on guitar is a mighty one! it can take you from fat and undefined to open and tight.

if you like noisy stuff, of an unstable/gated ''octave up'' wiring, my ''Jawari'' wiring scheme with really hot 4 wire humbuckers is cool too. it eliminates a lot of bass and adds a bunch of weird harmonic content.

the 'black ice' wiring is cool as well, one or two Ge or schottky diodes to replace a tone cap and you have a cool, low gain, drive sound on tap, which also changes the character of any distortion you put it in to, especially if its only one diode.

cheers

[pinkjimiphoton]

I've just taken to not putting tone controls in many of my more recent guitar builds. I build 2 or 3 a year and find I don't really use the tone control at all unless it's something like a telecaster.

man, you need to try hi and lo pass filters on a guitar. makes a ridiculous difference, particularly with distortion

You should make a quick vid on this, jimi...I know I for one would be interested in variations on the basic theme.   I only use them on my Tele bridge pup for obvious reasons, or to do some woman tone on the Strat. But they've always been kinda....not useful... in my world and I know I'm not alone!

i'll leave this one to my bud joe:

https://tonefiend.com/guitar/two-band-ptb-tone-control-useful-easy-cheap-awesome/

controlling the bass content from your guitar lets you control the amount of filth in fuzzes and dirt, the more bass? more distortion.

also great for opening up a "pocket" when you're singing

also great for when you're getting buried on stage live... cut the bass a bit, and it gives the amp more power to push the mids.

its really a brilliant piece of kit.

i'll try and do a video one of these days.

this is how i do it:

[GibsonGM]

Thanks man, that looks pretty cool.  Maybe a good way to actually use those pots located south of my right hand, LOL.

[pinkjimiphoton]

parks,
once you try it? there's no going back, ever. seriously! when you can "fake" a tele or a rick kinda tone on a les paul, its a MAGICKAL thing.

[soggybag]

I was just reading about this Pettyjohn overdrive and there was a lot of talk about caps and the mention of special quality caps, remembered this discussion and wondered what peoples take would be?

https://www.pettyjohnelectronics.com/post/the-inspiration-behind-the-gold-overdrive-by-pettyjohn-electronics

The talk here of "articulate" vs "blurry" harmonics. I can never hear this stuff. Obviously this guy has a lot more professional experience than myself but, I also wonder if he can be fooling himself?

Another interesting feature of this pedal is it's use of LT1144 charge pump and running on, what I'm guessing is +/-18v.

[ElectricDruid]

The talk here of "articulate" vs "blurry" harmonics. I can never hear this stuff. Obviously this guy has a lot more professional experience than myself but, I also wonder if he can be fooling himself?

He's not fooling himself, he's fooling his customers. Or maybe he's fooling himself too, but that's by the way - it's easier to fool people if you believe what you're telling them.

Did he ever do a serious test? Take two of those pedals, take the "super special" caps out of one and replace them with some cheap thing or just some basic foil caps and then do a blind A-B test against another? No, 'course not. Notice no-one ever presents a frequency response graph showing the difference between these articulate and blurry harmonics!

So he's hearing what he thinks he's going to hear, because that's how the human brain works, unfortunately. If we were more evolved we wouldn't be so subject to these obvious biases, but we are. They're only too real and very difficult to prevent, even if you think you know all about it. Learning about the placebo effect doesn't stop it working on you.

[pinkjimiphoton]

harmonics don't get "blurry". harmonics COULDN'T get blurry if they wanted to. harmonics are just harmonics.

these guys are on acid

[EBK]

I'm going to say a sound CAN get blurry when it has too much harmonic content. 

If you want to hear an example of this, gather up, say, three dirt pedals and run them in series, each adding a moderate, but not severe, amount of distortion, and no tight EQing.  Keep the gains of each pedal moderate too so you aren't just turning everything into a square wave.  What you will probably hear is what I describe as a "wall of mud."  Play that in a band rehearsal, and your bandmates will accuse you of being too loud, even if you really aren't all that loud.  What they are complaining about is your sound's "width".

[Rob Strand]

What I find funny is when people insist on those orange caps.    There's actually two types of orange caps Polyester and Polypropylene.     They aren't all Polypropylene.

[EBK]

What I find funny is when people insist on those orange caps.    There's actually two types of orange caps Polyester and Polypropylene.     They aren't all Polypropylene.

Yes, but what's the orange coating made out of?  That's the key! 

[Rob Strand]

Yes, but what's the orange coating made out of?  That's the key! 

Secret tasty goodness.

[iainpunk]

yes, i always choose capacitors based on their looks, just so my final board would look cool and interesting. i also do this for most other components, except resistors.

i cant wait to be soldering again, using some real mojo caps and opamp for the best tone!
i think ill go for the real old 50's capacitors in my stash, or maybe tropical fish, they have a lot 'straighter' harmonics to my ears 

cheers

[pinkjimiphoton]

I'm going to say a sound CAN get blurry when it has too much harmonic content. 

If you want to hear an example of this, gather up, say, three dirt pedals and run them in series, each adding a moderate, but not severe, amount of distortion, and no tight EQing.  Keep the gains of each pedal moderate too so you aren't just turning everything into a square wave.  What you will probably hear is what I describe as a "wall of mud."  Play that in a band rehearsal, and your bandmates will accuse you of being too loud, even if you really aren't all that loud.  What they are complaining about is your sound's "width".

not "harmonic content".... harmonics.
what you're talking about is gonna turn into mud more from the gain and compression and amplification of noise than "harmonics".

you're describing what we always called mud. that's not harmonics, tho they certainly are involved.

when talking harmonics usually folks would mean the harmonics generated from the primary sound generator i'd imagine.

but its still not "harmonics" that are blurry. in your example, it would be the overabundance of them, with square wave distortion, and a LOT of compression. that's changing the harmonic structure of the sound of the source,
a fascinating subject on its own but possibly unrelated to the subject of tone caps.

usually, in my experience, the "too loud" thing comes more from the obscene amounts of compression involved in stacking distortions than the actual volume involved. ymmv and should

[vortex]

I made some vinyl stickers some years back. Wrapped around any old cap, they improve the tone substantially.

Honest!

Hmmm...  I would say hey improve he one subsanially.   

Easy for you to say....

[iainpunk]

I made some vinyl stickers some years back. Wrapped around any old cap, they improve the tone substantially.

Honest!

reminds me of these ''capacitor tuning chips'' which are basically stickers for 'better tone'

makes me cringe over and over again

cheers

[pinkjimiphoton]

everybody knows, the tone is in the stickers!

[Rob Strand]

I've just taken to not putting tone controls in many of my more recent guitar builds. I build 2 or 3 a year and find I don't really use the tone control at all unless it's something like a telecaster.

Don't forget the old (? depends on you mind's time frame) Fender TBX scheme.   I have to admit it seemed like a good idea but on a strat I find maybe it's too much when fully open.

[andy-h-h]

There's historical evidence of guitarist being prone to gear voodoo from years back.  To quote Nigel Tufnel - this one goes to 11.   

[pinkjimiphoton]

You should make a quick vid on this, jimi...I know I for one would be interested in variations on the basic theme.   I only use them on my Tele bridge pup for obvious reasons, or to do some woman tone on the Strat. But they've always been kinda....not useful... in my world and I know I'm not alone!

video is uploading to my youtube as we speak. probably be an hour or so before its ready. pissed off the woman good. lol. oh well. fuzzy goodness means suffering sometimes.