Aion's Spectron : no sweeping in the modulation

[idy]

No point in keeping trim pot in...unless you decide to try running it on 12v!

[matopotato]

So for anyone coming here and wondering the same:
Bandwidth
Up goes to C6 470nF cap. So this should be "Full"
Center is off as in not connected any further. Which explains why Attack, Decay, Intensity and Sweep will be out of play
Down goes to C5 22nF cap. Which leaves this to be "1/2"

For Mode...
Down position makes a connection between Blend pin 3 and IC3 pin1 and this should be Bandpass
Middle position makes a connection between Blend pin 3 and IC1 pin7 should be Highpass
Up position makes a connection between Blend pin 3 and IC3 pin7 should be Lowpass

For Range, I will just have to listen to the effect, although I am still not sure how to connect Hi and Lo on meatball layout, with the sounds I get on Spectron.

[matopotato]

100k pot (trimmer) from 9v to pin 3 of 358. Dial it in until LED is just barely off, right at the edge of lighting up the LED. Replace with fixed resistor (next value higher than trimmer.)

Should LED be at some working level? Sweep up, run a looper sequence? Or just plain turned on perhaps

[idy]

Should LED be at some working level? Sweep up, run a looper sequence? Or just plain turned on perhaps

You set it so when no signal, LED is just below the level of lighting up. Now add some "program," (looper is fine) but it must have separated notes: note, decay, note decay. Is the LED triggering and then getting dark? (You will need to have attack and decay set correctly, will want to check how sensitivity works... The idea of sensitivity is you should be able to use a weak guitar with underfund pickups or a "line level" like a synth or something.

The mod with the trimmer is trying to get the voltage on pin 3 up above zero, but not high enough to light the LED, until you play.

[matopotato]

Today I planned to do the "finishing touches" and it seems to be sort of broke...
I trace the signal with Audio Probe, although it sounds worse than when it worked (better). I hear the song, but there is an increasing high-pithed squeal starting at the input actually. Output is more normal...
Anyway, there is signal all the way to 358, pin 2. Pin 3 is quiet, but that feels OK.
But pin 1 is quiet. Although there is like a loud noise pop, and if I hold it there, the pop repeats in shorter intervals, but a bit different in "tone" each time.
D4 sings on the "pin2" side, but has that same pop noise if anything as pin 1 does, yes they are connected so...
I trace a bit further and Attack has the pop as well, but more subdued.
358 pins 5 6 and 7 are quiet/pops
And the same through Attack as well as Decay, although Decay pops louder.
Checking around in the upper part I get audio on blend 2 pins.
Mode as well
IC1 5 and 6 quiet, 7 audio
IC3 pin 1 also audio
IC3 pin 7 gives audio, but goes into feedback soon.

So I'll try to re-solder
358 pin 1 of the socket
D4 D5 and R7
But it sounds as if something is more wrong than a solder this time...

Sorry, adjusted the pots to a more Meatball test setting and the whale settled down

[matopotato]

Re-soldered as above, no change.
I tested the mod anyway with the looper and then the trimpot to pin 3 on 358 and +9V, and when I touch pin 3 there is an effect and the green LEDs light up.
Like a transient (?) giving the 358 a boost or sorts.
So there was no clear moment when they dimmed or anything. So the basic fault probably made that test useless, besides trying it out.

[idy]

Always a lot to unpack. several things are confused.
It did work?
It doesn't now?
LED only flashes when you touch "bias pot" wire to it?
It squeals?

Do not look for audio around the 358, except pin 2. The audio enters pin 2 (that is still happening?) and is rectified by the diodes and comes out as DC. Not audio. This DC feeds and is buffered by the other pins, 5,6,7. Do not look for audio there either.

Squeal sounds like feedback, an oscillation. These things can do that. Turn resonance ("color") down. Click bypass a few times. Sometimes that works.

[matopotato]

Always a lot to unpack. several things are confused.
It did work?
It doesn't now?
LED only flashes when you touch "bias pot" wire to it?
It squeals?

Do not look for audio around the 358, except pin 2. The audio enters pin 2 (that is still happening?) and is rectified by the diodes and comes out as DC. Not audio. This DC feeds and is buffered by the other pins, 5,6,7. Do not look for audio there either.

Squeal sounds like feedback, an oscillation. These things can do that. Turn resonance ("color") down. Click bypass a few times. Sometimes that works.

Sorry for being unclear.
It did work
And it does not now in a proper way as before
I hear audio in several parts but it is squealy now compared with before.
LED not much action unless I touch certain pointa that pop or makes noise.
The trimtest was just one more.
Ordered some more 358s but no need for them now. Thanks for explaining.

Will try tomorrow.

[matopotato]

Yes audio still reach pin 2 on 358.

[matopotato]

Went through connectivity check, and as far as I can tell it checks out on the board including pots and jacks.
When powering on and I touch the breakout board I see the green LEDs flicker a bit, and in some angles stay dimly lit. So I suspect there is a weak solder or cable in there.

I resoldered the wires going in to breakoutboard and corresponding on main pcb. And i think it works.
I have been using a single coil strat and swapped to humbucker and that was different!
Now the greens "play along" sort of.
Strat g-string around 9th fret gives clear effect. And chords. Humbucker is more all over.

So this is clearly a pedal once done is just the first step. Now (after paint and boxing) time to learn how to play it. Will try with boost etc in front. I get a feeling it does not have to be first in chain...

So I also tried the mod. Turn off all lights and "barely lit" is not as absolute of a state. I get 62 66 and 72k respectively.
Either I try some more or get a suggestion based on this?
Tried again with more just passed lighting up. Got 73.3k. Then played both guitars and it does fade to black once I let strings ring out.
So that puts it on 75k next std value. Does that seem reasonable?
Since the Spectron sounded good with humbuckers and I also have a bass guitar, i plan on setting an on on spdt to engage or cut the mod.

Still confused about the Range. When most up or cw it souns bassy, but meatball print would say "Hi". And opposite in the down/ccw most way, sounds treblier...
So seems the reverse compared with Meatball. Or my understanding of what range and hi vs lo means is wrong. Anyone can confirm the most cw is bassy and most ccw is trebbly?

[idy]

So I also tried the mod. Turn off all lights and "barely lit" is not as absolute of a state. I get 62 66 and 72k respectively.
Either I try some more or get a suggestion based on this?
Tried again with more just passed lighting up. Got 73.3k. Then played both guitars and it does fade to black once I let strings ring out.
So that puts it on 75k next std value. Does that seem reasonable?

Again a lot to unpack and sift through. What results did you get at, 52, 66, 72K? Without knowing that my opinion is not worth much But around 72 might be OK. Think of it like this: voltage divider: 22k to ground, 75k to 9v. So you are a little less than 1/4 of the way "up from ground." that would be a little less than 1/4 of 9v. Actually about 2 volts. Your (green? ultra bright?) LEDs might have vf up 2 to 3 volts. So you are just 1 volt away from lighting up, or right there...

So you go at it again:

Tried again with more just passed lighting up. Got 73.3k.

Do you mean just enough to keep it lit? or just below, still dark but one more touch and it lights? (The second scenario is the one I am suggesting as good!)

By "let the string ring out" I guess you mean "let the strings fade out?" Yes, that's what you want, when the sound fades the light goes out. Turning "Decay" down will make this quicker. Turning "Decay" up will make that slower.

In my experiments close to 100k was right. The math is then (22k/(100+22k))x9v=1.62 volts. ... using a smaller resistor will bring the volts up, until you get too small and it keeps your LEDs lit all the time....which is no good.

Using a louder signal means this mod is not needed. For years I just always used boosters. Then I decided to tackle and, with advice from more knowledgeable members, "solve" this.

I don't think you need to put the "bias" pot or resistor on a switch. If you want less sensitivity, you turn sensitivity knob down.

If the range knob is the opposite of Meatball, so it goes. Try writing your labels on the other side of the knob (to its left, to its right) and you will find on one side "high" is high and "low" is low.

[matopotato]

Again a lot to unpack and sift through. What results did you get at, 52, 66, 72K? Without knowing that my opinion is not worth much But around 72 might be OK. Think of it like this: voltage divider: 22k to ground, 75k to 9v. So you are a little less than 1/4 of the way "up from ground." that would be a little less than 1/4 of 9v. Actually about 2 volts. Your (green? ultra bright?) LEDs might have vf up 2 to 3 volts. So you are just 1 volt away from lighting up, or right there...

It is a messy test for me, I am not that well stocked or organized, but in the total dark I kept trying until it went just dark. A touch of roll back made it light up again.
They are not bright green, they are more like dimmed. They measure 1.96V, but then they are in the circuit, which is always a challenge I've notices, but around 2V makes sense? Also with you calculations...

Do you mean just enough to keep it lit? or just below, still dark but one more touch and it lights? (The second scenario is the one I am suggesting as good!)

Just below, and a touch lower it lights up

By "let the string ring out" I guess you mean "let the strings fade out?" Yes, that's what you want, when the sound fades the light goes out. Turning "Decay" down will make this quicker. Turning "Decay" up will make that slower.

Yes, English is not my mother tongue.
I did not experiment with Decay or Sensitivity. Then I will need to have something more permanent set up and not as flimsy as I've done so far.
Although I used the "Standard" dial-in as per the build doc/Meatball manual and it reached the magic point at 73k. IMHO.

until you get too small and it keeps your LEDs lit all the time....which is no good.

Got that. (as in I understand what you are saying)
So the idea is to keep testing and tweaking Decay and Sensitivity until I see no green come on?

Using a louder signal means this mod is not needed. For years I just always used boosters. Then I decided to tackle and, with advice from more knowledgeable members, "solve" this.

I don't think you need to put the "bias" pot or resistor on a switch. If you want less sensitivity, you turn sensitivity knob down.

Since I swap between Humbucker and SC and the SC were quite "unresponsive" (for want of a better word), I still think the mod might be useful. A switch will allow me to cut it if I don't want it without having to open the box again.
My plan is to "get everything working" and the box it, and not having to take it out all the time anymore. I think that process might have caused the glitch before.

If the range knob is the opposite of Meatball, so it goes. Try writing your labels on the other side of the knob (to its left, to its right) and you will find on one side "high" is high and "low" is low.

Sure, I just don't fully understand what is the effect idea behind Hi and Lo range. Is it the frequency interval width? Or is it the center of the frequency interval and then Hi means more trebbly and Lo more bassy?

I am very happy though that it seems to be working properly, and once boxed I hope I can explore the settings and get to know it better.

[idy]

The effect of the range rotary is to select the range of the filter. Starting low, starting higher, starting very high, starting very very high. (At least they send crazy high to me, like an angry mosquito.)

The filter sweeps from that fixed point, normally up, but there is a switch that lets it swing down towards that point also...

[matopotato]

Ah, thanks!
Clearer now

[matopotato]

Finally done! Probably Famous Last...
But it does produce sound. It quacks and wahs and does stuff for sure. All knobs contribute with Colour a bit subtle, but I understood they all interact in various amounts depending on the others.
I think the Range ended up upside down so that on "Hi" it is the "bassiest" (sort of), but I'll live with that.
Notice SW corner is a humble and small tribute to the help especially from @idy.
In the gut shot you can see that I went rogue and kept the 100k trimpot in there. I shut down all lights and still come out around 75% of the turn, so I think I am at 75k after all. Now I can try close to 100k and see how that comes out. It does have a big impact on my Strat, so if anyone reading this is planning on doing a Spectron and has SC guitar, I would recommend it.
I must say that this build has been fighting me throughout the whole process, and it would be arrogant to think our journey is yet over. This is a pedal with a mind of its own.

Many many many thanks to you guys who helped me out and cheered me on, it was needed to be able to complete this project.

[idy]

Congrats.

The color is "resonance" and should make a huge difference. At low setting the filter is like turning a tone knob on a guitar, simple filter. At high setting the filter can be quite obnoxious, peaky, peaky, feedback prone, hold on to your hat and "turn that guitar down!"

Did you follow the recommendation of Aion and jumper pins 2 and 3 of the "color" pot?

It is strongly recommended to jumper pins 2 and 3 of the Color pot for better control of this parameter

Makes the travel better, not sure why. We all do it...

[idy]

Looking carefully at the build I have a question: Maybe sensitivity and intensity are switches around label-wise.

On the original (and the meat sphere) the labels are the other way, i.e. the left-most knob is sensitivity. On the schematic they are labeled as original: Sensitivity lowers the input to the detector IC, and intensity dims the LEDs.

On the original and meat sphere there is a clear division of the control panel into two halves: the left side all deals with the trigger: how easy it is to trigger ("sensitivity"), how fast, how long is the decay (three knobs,) and switches to cut bass to the trigger (bandwidth) swap the direction (sweep).

The right side controls the filter: how much feedback it has, how bright the LEDs ("intensity") are, how much filter effect you "blend" in (all pots) and switches to select range and filter type (HP BP HP.)

So I am perturbed to see the labeling. I can't see from the docs if the far left knob is what the schematic calls Sensitivity or is really Intensity. You could check and see if it turns the trigger down or dims the LEDs. (Power off, test for continuity to LEDs or bandwidth switch?)

I am betting only the labeling is changed. But it makes conversation about troubleshooting harder and may have lead to confusion along the way!!!

[matopotato]

Congrats.

The color is "resonance" and should make a huge difference. At low setting the filter is like turning a tone knob on a guitar, simple filter. At high setting the filter can be quite obnoxious, peaky, peaky, feedback prone, hold on to your hat and "turn that guitar down!"

Did you follow the recommendation of Aion and jumper pins 2 and 3 of the "color" pot?

It is strongly recommended to jumper pins 2 and 3 of the Color pot for better control of this parameter

Makes the travel better, not sure why. We all do it...

Thanks!
Yes, I  did the colour 2 3 pin jumper.

[matopotato]

Looking carefully at the build I have a question: Maybe sensitivity and intensity are switches around label-wise.

On the original (and the meat sphere) the labels are the other way, i.e. the left-most knob is sensitivity. On the schematic they are labeled as original: Sensitivity lowers the input to the detector IC, and intensity dims the LEDs.

On the original and meat sphere there is a clear division of the control panel into two halves: the left side all deals with the trigger: how easy it is to trigger ("sensitivity"), how fast, how long is the decay (three knobs,) and switches to cut bass to the trigger (bandwidth) swap the direction (sweep).

The right side controls the filter: how much feedback it has, how bright the LEDs ("intensity") are, how much filter effect you "blend" in (all pots) and switches to select range and filter type (HP BP HP.)

So I am perturbed to see the labeling. I can't see from the docs if the far left knob is what the schematic calls Sensitivity or is really Intensity. You could check and see if it turns the trigger down or dims the LEDs. (Power off, test for continuity to LEDs or bandwidth switch?)

I am betting only the labeling is changed. But it makes conversation about troubleshooting harder and may have lead to confusion along the way!!!

Sharp eyes!
I noticed the same thing when I  was comparing Meatball with Spectrum. So I asked Aion FX and he hadn't noticed the side aspect of Meatball. He might adjust in a next release. So the knobs are ok, but I will verify connectivity to make sure.
The decal design and printing was just as obnoxious as the build. Fits...
The Filter switch didn't do much until I  plugged in a bass. Seems a lot to discover. Got a first taste of attack decay interaction.

[matopotato]

The Colour is jumped pins 2 and 3. Will have to play around more with it.
The potentiometer marked Intensity Connects pins 1 and 2 to R10 (330R) and pin 3 to the Sweep (somewhere)
The on labelled Sensitivity connects Exp jack and ground with pin2 going to R5 (4k7) down by the Bandwidth switch.
So unless the Spectron naming in the schematics got them confused, I would say it checks out.

I tried to find Meatball schematics to compare, but only found other's makes or builds so nothing claiming to be the real deal. I assume you know how well the Spectron schematics match up with the Meatball, and if they do in this regard, I should be fine, albeit with a bit less logic on the layout of the pedal. Could have been worse off....