Western Electric is going to make tubes?

[blackieNYC]

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/western-electric-american-guitar-amp-tubes

[Mark Hammer]

I would expect the emphasis to be on power tubes, since those are the units most prone to wear and burnout.  Preamp tubes can last an awfully long time.  Although I suppose one also has to consider that amplifiers of any and every power-tube configuration are pretty much all going to need 12AX7s, and many will need more 12AX7s than power tubes.

[Rob Strand]

Just when everyone has aligned their tube sockets to the east the west starts producing tubes again.

[LightSoundGeometry]

that is awesome. I try to support domestic made stuff ..I spend the extra cash on those diodes inc. active parts and its worth it imho. they just look more robust if anything...the "mojo" affect 

[Mark Hammer]

Folks should just remember that one of the reasons why most of our tubes come from communist and "former communist" countries, and domestic production migrated there***, is because tube production tends to generate harmful environmental byproducts and environmental standards in those countries are generally not as stringent.  Businesses go where their production costs are lower.  That includes not only labour, but also what one is obliged to spend on prevention and cleanup.  Whatever Western Electric makes will likely be pricier than what we're used to.  Not just because North American labour costs will be higher, but because they will have to comply with environmental standards.  Ultimately, that's a good thing.  Bad enough it "poisons our youth".  Rock and roll should not poison the earth.

(***Yes, I'm well aware that continued tube production was fundamentally a "cold war thing" in China and the USSR, with tube-based communication continuing to function, post-nuclear war, while transistor-based communication would fail.)

[digi2t]

(***Yes, I'm well aware that continued tube production was fundamentally a "cold war thing" in China and the USSR, with tube-based communication continuing to function, post-nuclear war, while transistor-based communication would fail.)

And here I thought it was for sustaining "line of sight" communication...



Stupid me.

[amptramp]

The Western Electric 300B has been the go-to power triode for SET (single-ended triode) audio power amplifiers for several decades now.  I have heard a SET amplifier - it uses no negative feedback and the distortion is high, around 4%, but very pleasant, even though you can easily hear the difference from the original sound.

I would love to see a domestic supplier of 6L6 derivatives, even though my own personal shortage now is 6BQ5's.  I doubt anyone would restart a tube line to supply 17-watt amplifiers.  But it could revitalize the industry.  I am not a likely to worry about the environmental impact as the environmental impact of semiconductor production is as bad or worse and we do have semiconductor plants in North America.

[Electron Tornado]

Folks should just remember that one of the reasons why most of our tubes come from communist and "former communist" countries, and domestic production migrated there***, is because tube production tends to generate harmful environmental byproducts and environmental standards in those countries are generally not as stringent.

What we can hope for, is that some clever people will come up with improved manufacturing methods.

Rock and roll should not poison the earth.

Agree.

[vigilante397]

Folks should just remember that one of the reasons why most of our tubes come from communist and "former communist" countries, and domestic production migrated there***, is because tube production tends to generate harmful environmental byproducts and environmental standards in those countries are generally not as stringent.

Western Electric has addressed this in their statement.

The finished product remains unaltered for over 80 years. But, we've made key updates to machinery to ensure clean, green, and safe assembly.

Every material we use is considered safe and green. Western Electric strives to meet all OSHA and EPA standards and does not use any banned substances. We sell and ship vacuum tubes every day. We hope this is enough to demystify any old wives' tales about tube manufacturing hazards.

[Mark Hammer]

I doubt it is an "old wives tale" or else they would not have taken steps to meet OSHA and ERA standards, or even needed to in the first place.  What IS likely an "old wives tale" is that tube production is somehow implicitly environmentally hazardous and NO amount of protection can avoid that.  But like I said earlier.  It costs money to do that.  If the manufacturer and customers are prepared to cough up the extra dollars, cool.  But like so many things in life, you don't get something for nothing.

That said, good on Western Electric for doing the right thing.

[PRR]

...Businesses go where their production costs are lower. ...

Also to be near markets. People in north America and western Europe got transistor-crazy. The tube market collapsed quite suddenly. Those enormous tube factories got turned to semiconductor work. East Europe felt that tubes were better than nothing and accepted 'favors' from the west of used tube machinery. Nobody in that day cared about noxious waste-- factory town rivers burned and that was amusing. That's not why the west's tube industry fled.

If you are interested in the general topic of "Businesses go where their production costs are lower", I semi-endorse the book Capital Moves : RCA's Seventy-Year Quest for Cheap Labor. (In RCA's scope of business the cost of location was much less than the cost of labor.) It's a bit of a snoozer and misses some key points but still good for the sociologist's throne-room.

[marcelomd]

I've been reading about bringing high tech manufacturing to the US again for a while.

Interesting that, of all things, vacuum tubes for audio were one of the first things that were brought back.

Priorities =)

[Digital Larry]

Okay, but it's gonna wind up like electric cars and lithium batteries vs. oil reserves, which country has the most abundant supply of the vacuum gas that goes inside the tubes?  And what happens to the vacuum gas that gets spilled while they twist the ends of the tubes?  And...

[vigilante397]

Okay, but it's gonna wind up like electric cars and lithium batteries vs. oil reserves, which country has the most abundant supply of the vacuum gas that goes inside the tubes?  And what happens to the vacuum gas that gets spilled while they twist the ends of the tubes?  And...

There is no "vacuum gas" inside a tube, that's the vacuum part. The envelope of the tube is completely evacuated of gas, there's nothing in there. When early tubes were being developed (Lee DeForest I think) they experimented with partially evacuated tubes leaving some gas in there, but it was determined that a fully evacuated envelope was the way to go.

That being said point taken, there are materials required in the making of the tube that may not be available everywhere and that's something anyone looking to get into the manufacturing of them will need to consider.

[Rob Strand]

The envelope of the tube is completely evacuated of gas, there's nothing in there.

But I can see things inside  .

Seriously, they do more than just evacuate,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getter

[marcelomd]

Physics 1 in college. One day, the professor took a big evacuated glass tube to class. Inside the tube there were a rock and a feather. The classic experiment.

Then he opened the valve and we all heard that "ssshhhhhhhh".

"Class, who heard the vacuum coming out?"

About half the students raised their hands.

[Mark Hammer]

Okay, but it's gonna wind up like electric cars and lithium batteries vs. oil reserves, which country has the most abundant supply of the vacuum gas that goes inside the tubes?  And what happens to the vacuum gas that gets spilled while they twist the ends of the tubes?  And...

It was my understanding that vacuum gas is extracted from public officials.  So whichever nation or region has more of those will become the kingpin of tubes.

Just out of curiosity, at one time, many tubes had a metal casing, rather than glass.  Did that permit creation of a true vacuum internally?

[Digital Larry]

There is no "vacuum gas" inside a tube, that's the vacuum part.

But wait, nature abhors a vacuum, right?

https://youtu.be/gDkiq5jD5Hc?t=19

And sound doesn't travel in a vacuum.  But why are vacuum cleaners so loud?  (h.t. Duck's Breath Mystery Theater)

[stallik]

This thread reminds me of the time, not so long ago really, that I could pop down the road to the Chelmer Valve Company trade counter and collect whatever I needed. EL34's for about £5, 12AX7 £3.50 etc.etc. So local and so cheap that I never felt the need to keep my own stock. Doh!

[marcelomd]

And sound doesn't travel in a vacuum.  But why are vacuum cleaners so loud?  (h.t. Duck's Breath Mystery Theater)

Everybody knows sound travels faster in a vacuum because there's no air in the way!