Boomy Ai

[Mark Hammer]

Once again, I remind people of the words of a very wise man (Charlie Daniels), "There ain't but 12 notes in all of music".

Maybe in conventional western music, but folks all over the globe have quarter-tones, and even smaller pitch steps.  One of my heros, New England composer Charles Ives, had a dad who was a bandleader in the Union Army during the civil war.  His dad built a quarter-tone piano and taught Ives and his siblings to sing in quarter-tones.

[Steben]

The world's got to move back to quality rather than quantity.

That's democratic evolution. We are the new elitist snobs.

[GibsonGM]

Yes; democracies always devolve into mediocrity, after all!    It's good to be the elite (finally!)

[Steben]

Yes; democracies always devolve into mediocrity, after all!    It's good to be the elite (finally!)

Well pssst.... there is always elite. Democracies do make the elite larger.

[Rob Strand]

That would involve us being willing to pay more for quality. Currently, everyone is so skint that no-one has much choice anyway, but "cheap" tends to sell, and that means the best way to run a business is to shift more units - quantity.

I do totally agree though. It'd be nice if we could focus on "better" rather than "more". I just don't think it's very likely is all.

I hardly buy anything these days.  I'm so tired of buying (or seeing others buy) yet another POS, brand name or not 

[Mark Hammer]

That would involve us being willing to pay more for quality. Currently, everyone is so skint that no-one has much choice anyway, but "cheap" tends to sell, and that means the best way to run a business is to shift more units - quantity.

I do totally agree though. It'd be nice if we could focus on "better" rather than "more". I just don't think it's very likely is all.

I hardly buy anything these days.  I'm so tired of buying (or seeing others buy) yet another POS, brand name or not 

I don't know if you're familiar with the terrific Indo-British blackout-sketch comedy from 25 years back, Goodness Gracious Me, but there was a regular character on it of a South-Asian granny that was, shall we say, "very frugal".  She would always declare "That? I can make that for nothing at home.  All I need is a little aubergine."

Although there are plenty of interesting, and sometimes exciting, new products from inventive minds, my first reaction is often like that granny's:  "That?  I can make that for much less at home.  All I need is a couple of TL074s and some toggle switches."

[Rob Strand]

I don't know if you're familiar with the terrific Indo-British blackout-sketch comedy from 25 years back, Goodness Gracious Me, but there was a regular character on it of a South-Asian granny that was, shall we say, "very frugal".  She would always declare "That? I can make that for nothing at home.  All I need is a little aubergine."

Although there are plenty of interesting, and sometimes exciting, new products from inventive minds, my first reaction is often like that granny's:  "That?  I can make that for much less at home.  All I need is a couple of TL074s and some toggle switches."

Yes I remember that show.  I can't remember if there was someone in that show that said "Goodness Gracious Me" or it was from the 70's show Mind Your Language (and sequels).

My motive isn't to be frugal.  I'm just sick of buying stuff that should be in the bin.

[Fancy Lime]

Once again, I remind people of the words of a very wise man (Charlie Daniels), "There ain't but 12 notes in all of music".

Maybe in conventional western music, but folks all over the globe have quarter-tones, and even smaller pitch steps.  One of my heros, New England composer Charles Ives, had a dad who was a bandleader in the Union Army during the civil war.  His dad built a quarter-tone piano and taught Ives and his siblings to sing in quarter-tones.

It was quite the revelation for me when I fist played a fretless bass. It's amazing how much interesting music (nit just strange noise) you can make with quarter or third tones. It might not be for everyone, though 

[amptramp]

Like most products, there will be some AI platforms that are better than others.  One thing that could be done is to have the AI learn all the number 1 songs of the hit parade era including all the hit parades, country, pop, rock, gospel, metal, punk and further subdivisions and try to extract the features that made for greatness.  Then you could have a music AI that was aimed at chart supremacy.  Boomy AI doesn't appear to be aimed in that direction but I am sure someone will come to the same conclusion that music based on the analysis of successful music is more likely to be successful.

There are already some songs that were based on older songs that merely inverted the intervals of an earlier song - where notes went up, they now go down the same amount and vice versa and this was all done by hand.  Imagine a program that can absorb music and spit out the inverted versions.  It is likely that you will be able to get something useful without advanced programming and some enterprising individual is probably doing that right now.

AI is taking baby steps now.  It is likely to grow rapidly into something that will outstrip human production rates and may actually get better at what it does - enough that it ends up in common use.  Not all AI is created equal - the instructions it goes by are not likely to be the same as other AI platforms and some winners will emerge.  All you need is an AI lyricist and you have a business whose employees are silicon.

[garcho]

To quote Kool Keith, "Downloaders, you destroyed your own thing." Referring to people who basically stole digital recordings and inadvertently created the horrors of the modern day music industry. Now there's nothing to download, you have to pay to stream, tickets are expensive, tours are short, and (pop) music sucks (it always did). That's an exaggeration of course but not so far from the truth.
AI technology might do something similar. I wouldn't be so surprised if a rebellious generation threw their phones away and gave up on the internet and hi-tech dogma altogether. I can dream, can't I?

That being said, I love my iZotope plug-ins...

[Mark Hammer]

Like most products, there will be some AI platforms that are better than others.  One thing that could be done is to have the AI learn all the number 1 songs of the hit parade era including all the hit parades, country, pop, rock, gospel, metal, punk and further subdivisions and try to extract the features that made for greatness.  Then you could have a music AI that was aimed at chart supremacy.  Boomy AI doesn't appear to be aimed in that direction but I am sure someone will come to the same conclusion that music based on the analysis of successful music is more likely to be successful.

There are already some songs that were based on older songs that merely inverted the intervals of an earlier song - where notes went up, they now go down the same amount and vice versa and this was all done by hand.  Imagine a program that can absorb music and spit out the inverted versions.  It is likely that you will be able to get something useful without advanced programming and some enterprising individual is probably doing that right now.

AI is taking baby steps now.  It is likely to grow rapidly into something that will outstrip human production rates and may actually get better at what it does - enough that it ends up in common use.  Not all AI is created equal - the instructions it goes by are not likely to be the same as other AI platforms and some winners will emerge.  All you need is an AI lyricist and you have a business whose employees are silicon.

So let's say that AI gets VERY good at composition, and even becomes able to identify the "right" point for inserting a bridge, modulation, or some other form of "emotional peak".  What would the consequence be?  More product?  Gee thanks.  Some of it might conceivably be *better* product than some of the things occupying the airwaves, streaming services, or whatnot, but it's still MORE product, and one will still have to wade through all the other existing and contemporary product to find it.  Music is hard to appreciate when one is stuck at the choice point, or when one has to rely on someone or something else to make the choices for you.

AI-generated music is quite unlikely to elicit the response that I associate with useful technology: someone my age remarking "Finally!!" in great relief.  I like cole slaw, but a salad bar with 58 different variations on cole slaw is not going to be pleasing, or add value of any kind.  Faced with too much choice, one is going to opt for the most familiar and ignore everything else.

[Fancy Lime]

Looks like Kool Keith discovered the Tragedy of the Commons once more. I very much disagree with the oft repeated sentiment, though, that Napster or downloading or, once we're at it, THE INTERNET, somehow destroyed music. Just as in the olden days of record label executives crying "Home Taping is Killing Music" into piles of money and cocaine, the biggest blow of these technical developments and their inevitable consequences is to the "industry" part of the music industry, not the "music " part. At least in the long run, although there certainly are negative consequences for established artists in the short term. And the "industry" part can @#$% all the way off, as far as I'm concerned. And, to be frank, my pity for the few megastars who might miss out on a few millions because people download their songs for free, is very limited. One thing that the internet and related technical developments including the demise of the "old model" with record label contracts and such has brought us, is an immense treasure trove of creative fresh bands and artists that you can just go find on YouTube now, or Reddit, or niche genre-related forums. Most if not all of these are amateurs. By that I mean, they make music because they love it, not because it pays the bills. For almost all of them, music will never be a relevant source of income. Yet, so many of them are so, so awesome. I have discovered more music in the past ten years than in the rest of my life, without trying to. That is the flip side of some of the same processes that cut into the profit of megastars and major record labels. And if that's the trade we're making, sign me up!

[andy-h-h]

This is amusing....         


https://mashable.com/article/spotify-ai-crackdown

The songs, generated by AI startup Boomy, were removed after being flagged for suspicious streaming activity.

Spotify took down tens of thousands of songs created by artificial-intelligence startup Boomy, reports Financial Times(opens in a new tab). The streaming giant removed the songs after Universal Music flagged the songs for suspicious streaming activity. The songs were withdrawn from the platform because of suspected use of bots to inflate streams, a practice known as artificial streaming.

[Fancy Lime]

So now millions of bots are downloading millions of songs created by AI from the same company that pays the bots to download the songs. That must be this "progress" I keep hearing about. It perfectly illustrates the tech bro "business" model, though. Works fine as long as you find suckers investors, who you can convince that this will somehow make them rich. Greed eat brains!

[Mark Hammer]

Kinda makes one nostalgic for Muzak and elevator music, doesn't it?  That stuff may have skirted copyright by changing a note or two of a familiar tune, but at least it started off with pleasing familiar music.

[GibsonGM]

There will always be underground, human-made music.  There always has been, always will.  People still want to play 'unplugged', even tho tech light years ahead of their instruments exists.  I mean...if you have AI generating all this stuff...then 'someone' has to police it, right?  Governments.  They don't particularly like catchy music that informs the masses about touchy subjects.  Will AI be allowed to 'write' protest songs?  Doubt it.  I have zero expectation that "AI" will be free to actually create.  It will have a palette of acceptable lyrics to choose from (once it starts singing to us...is it doing so already?  I haven't heard if so).

Expect "AI" to be firmly in the hands of people who don't particularly have the interests of 'the people' at heart.  And thus, an underground movement to make human-generated content will arise.  It'll probably be outlawed, but will still be there.

[dennism]

Ok, so I can accept that AI will be able to create catchy melodies, but there's no way it could ever produce lyrics with the nuance and {human} complexity of say, Dylan "My back pages", Townes Van Zant, "Pancho and Lefty", Kristofferson, "Me and Bobby McGee", etc... Right?

[amz-fx]

I have zero expectation that "AI" will be free to actually create.

AI can't create; it can only computate.

   

(*okay, not actually a word but it sounds better than "compute")

-Jack

[GibsonGM]

Very true, Jack...very true.  It can make pretty permutations and combinations  

[duck_arse]

Ok, so I can accept that AI will be able to create catchy melodies, but there's no way it could ever produce lyrics with the nuance and {human} complexity of say, Dylan "My back pages", Townes Van Zant, "Pancho and Lefty", Kristofferson, "Me and Bobby McGee", etc... Right?

Surfin' Bird.
Paralysed by the Ledge.
Mashed Potato by Billy Thorpe and the Aztecs.
etc.

I hate ai.