somebody needs to trace this one from the pics!

[glops]

Here's this thing too:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195843776644?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818143230%26meid%3D2ec95338b85142b8aeedf52b7e499586%26pid%3D101224%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D134629608446%26itm%3D195843776644%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D4429486%26algv%3DDefaultOrganicWebV9BertRefreshRanker&_trksid=p4429486.c101224.m-1

[bluelagoon]

Looks identical, only a different brand name and a higher price tag!

[Rob Strand]

Here's this thing too:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195843776644?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818143230%26meid%3D2ec95338b85142b8aeedf52b7e499586%26pid%3D101224%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D134629608446%26itm%3D195843776644%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D4429486%26algv%3DDefaultOrganicWebV9BertRefreshRanker&_trksid=p4429486.c101224.m-1

Thanks.  I can add another one to the list.

Here's the combined schematic for all the stuff I could work out.

[V1.2 obsolete, SEE UPDATE BELOW]

[FYI, more info shows even more Goya variations.]

I have some level of confidence this covers most of the bases.   Note the different wiring of the Fuzz level on the Goya unit.   Also the complicated network on the output of the Treble booster.  If you look at the Mark Borrow and Chris Martin schematic you can see how a few things went off the rails.   Hopefully the V1.2 schematic fills in some of the greyer areas.

[Rob Strand]

Since i like/collect transistors, here are some pictures. Still learning to use the new Motorola macro mode. Don't know if these are in order but....

2n718, Texas instruments 67 date code. Rounded edges on the top. Seems TI liked to print on the top. Probably not the style used in that pedal. Just took a pic of this because it has printing on top.

Another, GI 1569? Could be military, my dad used to strip parts from circuit boards bought at a army surplus store.

Cool collection.   The TI unit is definitely TI.   The GI unit could be General Instrument, they did transistors back in those days.

Don't know what the black TO-5 transistors I found on a lot of those units are.   GE made black TO-5's but they always put their logo in white on the top.

[Phend]

Looks like there are different ones.

[garcho]

^ ay caramba, my first build had cleaner guts

[imJonWain]

It's not unreasonable they built around whatever surplus parts were cheap.  I had a solid state amp (I forget the brand now) made in NJ in the late 60s and the inside was a hodge podge of mostly RCA branded parts with internal part numbers on them.

[Rob Strand]

There are variations on the same pedal, sometimes over time.  However there are systematic differences between the different models.  Jimi's link is for the Vivant but glops' link is for the Applied.

The Goya Panther has a completely different layout and some minor circuit differences (see last schematic).

https://www.gemuw.online/detail/Vintage-1960%27s-Goya-Panther-Fuzz-Effects-Pedal-RARE-Free-USA-Shipping_Z2RkbGZtYJFnYWqU.html

The thing is about these types of pedals is the more you dig the more blurred the systematic differences become.

[mozz]

Those black TO-5's are probably GE's as said. 2N525, 2N526. 2N527 era. Many of these non marked transistors, i see as being sold as rejects back then. Probably a lot cheaper to buy, unsorted, untested but good enough to work in your circuit.

[imJonWain]

I got out bid :/ but I'll go back during the last few minutes and try again.  Hopefully we don't have a single thread bid war lol. 

[garcho]

^ it's probably someone on the "other" forum 

[R.G.]

The circuit' similarity and disparity of specific component values reminds me of the variations in Big Muffs and other early EH stuff. The tale is that EH would go buy parts that were the closest they could get to the desired values from nearby surplus dealers and make runs from what they could buy. Kind of a "use the part you're with" approach. In the era of hand wired point to point effects, I suspect that there was a fair amount of this going on.

[pinkjimiphoton]

The circuit' similarity and disparity of specific component values reminds me of the variations in Big Muffs and other early EH stuff. The tale is that EH would go buy parts that were the closest they could get to the desired values from nearby surplus dealers and make runs from what they could buy. Kind of a "use the part you're with" approach. In the era of hand wired point to point effects, I suspect that there was a fair amount of this going on.

RG! nice to "read" ya!

its only rock and roll, but i like it.

its a goddamn fuzzbox, brother, indeed, ya work with what's on hand!

i mean, ya gotta EASY 20% tolerance in most dirt circuits.

i mean... dare i get unpopular here...

they all kinda do the same damn thing, with SOMETIMES minor tonal difference, sometimes major, but there's plenty more ways to skin a cat than most of us think at first.

i believe, truth is, as preached by yourself and others, they all can sound pretty close to the same with a wide range of circuits, and close enough is often fine.

makes sense. if you can buy say, a loss leader 500 piece reel of 110k resistors and ya need 100k...and that costs you a dollar or so more for 500 100k...that's still more than a tight tolerance for a fuzzbox, and ya save yourself a dollar or two to spend on other things, like gigantic coffees or the like.

i am laying out. in the old days, i woulda been on this doing a crappy vero layout before rob was done clicking post, but i'm an old bull now and frankly, tho still fascinated by all things fuzz, i don't use them anymore, and its been over a year since i stopped building devices. my butt still hurts from that goddamn grifter.

my thing is more synths right now. lol

look forward to seeing what the fambly comes up with!

making popcorn as it were...

peace

[Phend]

but i'm an old bull now and

"The older the buck, the harder the horn"
an old Vermont myth....lol
Peace back at ya

[Rob Strand]

Those black TO-5's are probably GE's as said. 2N525, 2N526. 2N527 era. Many of these non marked transistors, i see as being sold as rejects back then. Probably a lot cheaper to buy, unsorted, untested but good enough to work in your circuit.

That's probably it.

I've added a bit more info to the schematic to capture all the known stuff.
Might park it there.  This thing is very hard to pin down.
[V1.3 removed]

The circuit' similarity and disparity of specific component values reminds me of the variations in Big Muffs and other early EH stuff. The tale is that EH would go buy parts that were the closest they could get to the desired values from nearby surplus dealers and make runs from what they could buy. Kind of a "use the part you're with" approach. In the era of hand wired point to point effects, I suspect that there was a fair amount of this going on.

Welcome back.

Back in the day (around 2002) I remember debates on this forum about *two* versions of Big Muff.   

Someone spent a lot of time putting this together.
http://kitrae.net/music/big_muff_history.html

Which shows just how many versions there really is when you compile all the data.   It's an overwhelming task trying to document it.  At least the Big Muff is popular and there's heaps of samples out there.

With such small number of samples for the Goya/Vivant/etc. such detail just isn't going to happen.

[glops]

I got out bid :/ but I'll go back during the last few minutes and try again.  Hopefully we don't have a single thread bid war lol.

I had bid on it a few days ago and likely you were the one who outbid me!

[Phend]

Btw, whoever wins needs to trace it's circuit as shown in the pics, and post it back here.
Plus inform what needed to be fixed to get it working.
I am not bidding. One day and some hours left.

[imJonWain]

If you wanna go for it glops I won't bid anymore.  No sense in driving each other up on a basically community project.  I'd honestly just end up reselling it on here once fixed anyway lol.   

[mozz]

Wow, $305.

[pinkjimiphoton]

yikes!