Advice please: Fuzz vs cranked Marshall JCM800

[andy-h-h]

Hey all,

Just wondering if anyone has experience with this / can offer advice.   Someone is asking me about a pedal that will overcome a fully cranked Marshall JCM800 - the scenario is this;

Cranked Marshall JCM800 (no master volume) is their stock sound, naturally with a humbucker in the bridge position.  They want a pedal that will turn the cranked Marshall sound into fuzz.  They have quite a large pedal collection, so they are no novice on that front.

Thoughts?   I was thinking Foxx Tone Machine on the octave setting, but they kind of hate octave.

[idy]

Help us make sense of this. What are their issues with their existing collection of fuzz? What don't they like about:
fuzz face
tone bender
Big Muff
Diode based ODs
What other fuzzes have the tried and rejected?

[andy-h-h]

I'm not sure if you've ever tried it, but when you hit a Marshall amp running really hard with a fuzz, sometimes not much happens, or it turns into a hot mess.

Part of the reason I'm reaching out for help is that they have a very large collection of pedals, primarily of the vintage style.  So I was wondering if anyone has ever come across anything a bit left-field that may not be on anyone's radar.

I'll test this out, but I'm even wondering if a volume drop might be helpful.  i.e.  reduce amp clipping with a lower input level to give the fuzz a chance, but hopefully not drop overall levels.

[Fancy Lime]

Any fuzz or distortion into an already fully distorted amp will not add very much except chaos (which may be good but I take it is not what your buddy us looking for). There is a reason why high-headroom amps with oversized power supplies and power tube sections are popular in genres that rely on fuzz pedals for their characteristic sound. Try reducing the Marshall's volume to the point where the power section only barley clips and hit that with a fuzz. Better yet, find an amp that does not thin out the bass at the front end, or at least not as much as Marshalls do. Sunn Model-T, Sunn Beta, Matamp Green, Orange OR-120, Ampeg V4 should all do the trick. Or any high-power bass amp. Have a look at the equipment of Stoner Rock bands like Sleep or Kyuss.

Andy

[andy-h-h]

I should mention that has a clean amp as well, and that he is well aware of what others are up to with their rigs.

He's trying to avoid using two amps, and wants the Marshall running hard, as that's kind of the cornerstone of the band's sound (punk).

I'm wondering if something like a dual, always on pedal might help.  Pull the volume back on the Marshall a bit (as mentioned above) and then hit it with a boost to get it back where it was - when the fuzz is engaged, the boost is turned off, and the fuzz has room to breathe.   Hopefully with not too much difference in level.

I get that this is a bit of a unicorn device challenge, but I kind of like a bit of a challenge occasionally - and if I don't succeed, I will have learnt some things along the way.

[Fancy Lime]

OK, I see. One thing that cuts through amp distortion and adds to it nicely in a nasty way, is crossover distortion. Have a look as Tim Escobedo's Tripple Fuzz for that. The Zvex Machine is essentially two such things in series but that is a bit too much to be anything more than a gimmick at least for my taste.

Also, if you want to back off the amp distortion when using a fuzz, you don't need a dual pedal. Just set the output volume of the fuzz pedal low. If the amp volume is set just right, this may be enough to get the two desired sounds without too much volume difference.

[Ben N]

Well, you've already got plenty of saturation in the amp, but the thing that keeps a hard driven Marshal from becoming a fuzz is the judicious rolloff of bass below the 100hz peak in the preamp. So if you want the amp to BE a fuzz, boost the bass. So, yellow humper? ROG Mr. EQ? Or really any boost/eq that can boost the right frequencies. I would experiment with a graphic eq to find the right recipe, then try to find or design a tailored boost.

[Steben]

Yes, if fuzz is a fixed character of clipping sound try the bass thing.
But it won't give you all dynamic roll off effects of a fuzz face for example.
But given the music genre and the always on crancking this might not be a demand. 
An A/B parallel circuit switching might work with a boost and a fuzz.

[Fancy Lime]

There is also the tried and true method of running an everything-cranked Fuzz Face into an everything-cranked JCM800 and to just roll back the guitar volume for an "amp-distortion only" sound and then rolling it up for full fuzzy mayhem. I have heard people say that that is the ONLY guitar tone that should ever exist. I'm not that zealous but I admit they might have a point. There's a guy used to do something like that. Name escapes me momentarily. Kind of famous way back when. Played that open air thing, wassname, wood stove?

[andy-h-h]

There is also the tried and true method of running an everything-cranked Fuzz Face into an everything-cranked JCM800 and to just roll back the guitar volume for an "amp-distortion only" sound and then rolling it up for full fuzzy mayhem. I have heard people say that that is the ONLY guitar tone that should ever exist. I'm not that zealous but I admit they might have a point. There's a guy used to do something like that. Name escapes me momentarily. Kind of famous way back when. Played that open air thing, wassname, wood stove?

Hmm - who was that guy again?  James someone???

[Ben N]

There is also the tried and true method of running an everything-cranked Fuzz Face into an everything-cranked JCM800 and to just roll back the guitar volume for an "amp-distortion only" sound and then rolling it up for full fuzzy mayhem. I have heard people say that that is the ONLY guitar tone that should ever exist. I'm not that zealous but I admit they might have a point. There's a guy used to do something like that. Name escapes me momentarily. Kind of famous way back when. Played that open air thing, wassname, wood stove?

Hmm - who was that guy again?  James someone???

That's it! Jimmy James (and his Blue Flames)!

[bluebunny]

Hmm - who was that guy again?  James someone???

Pocius? 

[Fancy Lime]

James Hetbang? Plays guitar for Ironica?

Edit: Damn, 20 years ago when I was in a very short lived band project playing terminally insincere reggae and ska covers of Metallica and Misfits songs, we should have called ourselves Ironica. Oh, missed opportunities, story of my life!

[duck_arse]

as Antonis might say, how Ionic.

[Fancy Lime]

Anionic or cationic?