Water slide decal curls up

[matopotato]

Hi,
I use water slide decals for pedal art. The white ones have soo far worked well, they stay on although a little bit sensitive to wear and tear. Not a big issue for me.
But the transparent ones are giving me problems some months after they are done. Then at some edge they begin to curl up.
I have basically used the same process for both kinds.
Inkjet print. Spray coat to fixate. Luke warm water 30 s. Wet pedal surface. Dry for long enough time. Take out excessive water in drilled holes. New layers of spray coat.

Any ideas why the transparent ones peel off like that?
Some early ones can have bubbles round the pots, but that is not where they curl up from.

[GGBB]

That hasn't happened to me. My process is similar but different:

• Prepare painted surface (sand smooth - very fine)
• Soak decal in lukewarm water until it starts lifting from backing paper
• Wet surface
• Slide decal onto surface into position
• Pat dry with sponge or towel, removing excess water and bubbles
• Allow to dry (overnight?)
• Clear coat with light (not dust) coats three times
• Continue clear coating and wet sand between coats until smooth and flat (don't sand through into decal)
• Polish and buff

I use laser decals so I don't have to clear coat the decal before wetting/applying

If they peel up, maybe the topcoat is not a full coat (just a dust coat?) or not thick enough?

If you do it right, it should be extremely difficult to see the edge of the decal.

[davent]

That hasn't happened to me. My process is similar but different:

• Prepare painted surface (sand smooth - very fine)
• Soak decal in lukewarm water until it starts lifting from backing paper
• Wet surface
• Slide decal onto surface into position
• Pat dry with sponge or towel, removing excess water and bubbles
• Allow to dry (overnight?)
• Clear coat with light (not dust) coats three times
• Continue clear coating and wet sand between coats until smooth and flat (don't sand through into decal)
• Polish and buff

I use laser decals so I don't have to clear coat the decal before wetting/applying

If they peel up, maybe the topcoat is not a full coat (just a dust coat?) or not thick enough?

If you do it right, it should be extremely difficult to see the edge of the decal.

And to do it right will take time and patience, but it's worth it.

[matopotato]

Thanks a lot for the tips.
The main difference as I see it is the wet sanding.
I never did this since I felt it would disturb the painted surface as most of my enclosures are powder-coated colored.
Also I felt that sanding the decal would probably destroy it.
But I am willing to try.
I have 600, 1000 and 1200 grit of wet sand paper. What would you recommend?

I also try to understand why the transparent ones are failing (~70% but there is also a time factor so could be worse) but the white based ones do not?

[ElectricDruid]

I use laser decals so I don't have to clear coat the decal before wetting/applying

That must depend on your decal / laser printer / toner combination. For me, if I *don't* clear coat the decal before wetting it, the water lifts the toner off the decal and the printing literally floats away!

[Baran Ismen]

I'll give a tip as a plastic model hobbyist.

We use waterslide decals for markings and such on planes, heli's etc. What we do is after the paint, we apply a gloss coat of varnish over the surface first, let it dry couple of hours, then apply the waterslide decals, and a special protecting agent which is called Micro Sol (the ingredient of this is butyl glycol, diluted with water), which increases the adherence of the label onto the surface. Then finally we apply a matt or gloss finish over it so that it's sealed between the layers.

Just my 2 cents.

[matopotato]

I'll give a tip as a plastic model hobbyist.

We use waterslide decals for markings and such on planes, heli's etc. What we do is after the paint, we apply a gloss coat of varnish over the surface first, let it dry couple of hours, then apply the waterslide decals, and a special protecting agent which is called Micro Sol (the ingredient of this is butyl glycol, diluted with water), which increases the adherence of the label onto the surface. Then finally we apply a matt or gloss finish over it so that it's sealed between the layers.

Just my 2 cents.

No wet sanding?

[Baran Ismen]

I'll give a tip as a plastic model hobbyist.

We use waterslide decals for markings and such on planes, heli's etc. What we do is after the paint, we apply a gloss coat of varnish over the surface first, let it dry couple of hours, then apply the waterslide decals, and a special protecting agent which is called Micro Sol (the ingredient of this is butyl glycol, diluted with water), which increases the adherence of the label onto the surface. Then finally we apply a matt or gloss finish over it so that it's sealed between the layers.

Just my 2 cents.

No wet sanding?

No need as long as there's a high gloss shine is wished for; i.e. civil cars or airplanes; and if wanted, it's done after the final coat to remove the orange-peel effect, but that truly not necessary for a pedal.

Just forgot to mention the reason for a gloss undercoat that, when these decals are applied on a matt or an uncoated surface they leave a greyish mark/air gap that you can not hide and looks ugly af. Underside of the decal must be airtight to prevent that, and only with a glossy surface you can achieve that.

[matopotato]

I'll give a tip as a plastic model hobbyist.

We use waterslide decals for markings and such on planes, heli's etc. What we do is after the paint, we apply a gloss coat of varnish over the surface first, let it dry couple of hours, then apply the waterslide decals, and a special protecting agent which is called Micro Sol (the ingredient of this is butyl glycol, diluted with water), which increases the adherence of the label onto the surface. Then finally we apply a matt or gloss finish over it so that it's sealed between the layers.

Just my 2 cents.

No wet sanding?

No need as long as there's a high gloss shine is wished for; i.e. civil cars or airplanes; and if wanted, it's done after the final coat to remove the orange-peel effect, but that truly not necessary for a pedal.

Just forgot to mention the reason for a gloss undercoat that, when these decals are applied on a matt or an uncoated surface they leave a greyish mark/air gap that you can not hide and looks ugly af. Underside of the decal must be airtight to prevent that, and only with a glossy surface you can achieve that.

Thanks,
So if enclosure is powder-coated-painted, I run a layer or so of spray paint. Then waterslide print, spray slide to protect inkjet, water procedure. Dry and spray to fixate on enclosure?

[Baran Ismen]

I'll give a tip as a plastic model hobbyist.

We use waterslide decals for markings and such on planes, heli's etc. What we do is after the paint, we apply a gloss coat of varnish over the surface first, let it dry couple of hours, then apply the waterslide decals, and a special protecting agent which is called Micro Sol (the ingredient of this is butyl glycol, diluted with water), which increases the adherence of the label onto the surface. Then finally we apply a matt or gloss finish over it so that it's sealed between the layers.

Just my 2 cents.

No wet sanding?

No need as long as there's a high gloss shine is wished for; i.e. civil cars or airplanes; and if wanted, it's done after the final coat to remove the orange-peel effect, but that truly not necessary for a pedal.

Just forgot to mention the reason for a gloss undercoat that, when these decals are applied on a matt or an uncoated surface they leave a greyish mark/air gap that you can not hide and looks ugly af. Underside of the decal must be airtight to prevent that, and only with a glossy surface you can achieve that.

Thanks,
So if enclosure is powder-coated-painted, I run a layer or so of spray paint. Then waterslide print, spray slide to protect inkjet, water procedure. Dry and spray to fixate on enclosure?

Should go like this;

1- Spray paint (if necessary)
1A- Wet sand the blemishes once fully cured
2- Gloss varnish
3- Apply Waterslide decal(s),
4- 2nd Gloss varnish (or matt, up to you) for sealing the decals,
5- Profit

[GGBB]

I use laser decals so I don't have to clear coat the decal before wetting/applying

That must depend on your decal / laser printer / toner combination. For me, if I *don't* clear coat the decal before wetting it, the water lifts the toner off the decal and the printing literally floats away!

That was not a problem for me. For the record it was a Lexmark colour laser printer. And also I actually used inkjet waterslide paper in the laser printer - not laser waterslide paper.

[GGBB]

1- Spray paint (if necessary)
1A- Wet sand the blemishes once fully cured
2- Gloss varnish

IMO - you should not need to gloss varnish a prepared paint surface. But I agree that the prepared surface needs to be flat and smooth whether you decide to put clear paint over coloured paint or not. Also IMO high gloss is not necessary - just super smooth and flat and no visible scratches however fine - semi-gloss/satin is enough.

[GGBB]

I have 600, 1000 and 1200 grit of wet sand paper. What would you recommend?

All of them in that order and even higher - 2000, 3000 - until you have an ultra smooth flat scratch free surface. With clear coats, you will see any scratches and sanding marks left in previous coats.

[davent]

Then you can move on into rubbing compounds.

That said I finish with matt waterbased laquer as I'm not a fan of shiny/glossy.

[Baran Ismen]

1- Spray paint (if necessary)
1A- Wet sand the blemishes once fully cured
2- Gloss varnish

IMO - you should not need to gloss varnish a prepared paint surface. But I agree that the prepared surface needs to be flat and smooth whether you decide to put clear paint over coloured paint or not. Also IMO high gloss is not necessary - just super smooth and flat and no visible scratches however fine - semi-gloss/satin is enough.

That's actually right, if the paint is gloss already, no need for a gloss varnish for initial layer. We mostly use matt paints for models, so that's why we apply an initial gloss coat.

[bluebunny]

I'm mostly with Gord, except for the wet sanding malarky:  (life's too short!)

• (assume starting with painted enclosure: a whole 'nother story...)
• apply decal
• wait to dry thoroughly (have lunch, go shopping...)
• thin clear-coat, wait 20 minutes - repeat x3-ish

Laser decals going through a laser printer, btw.

[Shoeman]

I don't get how anything would curl up if it has been cleared over adequately.  I make car models and work in a large auto collision repair shop.  Lot's of good advice already given.  The wet and and buff and compounding is at the makers discretion.  My pedal builds finishes are not meant to replicate a restored vintage Ferrari with 6 layers of hand rubbed lacquer   But others may want that look.

[matopotato]

I don't get how anything would curl up if it has been cleared over adequately.  I make car models and work in a large auto collision repair shop.  Lot's of good advice already given.  The wet and and buff and compounding is at the makers discretion.  My pedal builds finishes are not meant to replicate a restored vintage Ferrari with 6 layers of hand rubbed lacquer   But others may want that look.

That is what I also cannot figure out either. The white ones stay, the transparent have at least 70% fail. Once on the enclosure and well dried more than a day they get 2-3 layers. That is one layer is three criss cross passings. Dry well, and then the next layer.
Feels like the quality of the glue on the transparent ones is below par. Or they are thicker than the white ones so tensions to curl is stronger.
Sanding down edges before clear coating last 3 after dried in place might help. I can sacrifice one to test, but the fail takes a few months to manifest itself.
They are not being handled as in heated gig situations either..
One curled quite soon after. But it was on a brushed aluminium surface so that could be a cause it has too little surface to stick to.
Another that took longer was on a near mirror polished aluminum so that is about as flat it gets in my case. Still curled.

[chip]

That's weird.

When your decal is drying, are you making sure that the edges are absolutely adhered? The one thing I've seen is: I get the decal placed, the edges are all laying down flat, I come back to it ~10 minutes later (so it's not really dry yet) and the edges of the decal have some slight undulations in them that need to be burnished down again. I've never tried to clear coat over that, so I don't know how it would go—the first time it happened, I didn't notice it until the decal was completely dry, and I didn't trust that it would hold so I just removed it and started over with a new decal; since then, I've been aware of it and have made sure that they were really REALLY flat before proceeding with clear.

It doesn't sound like it's a problem with your process though, since it's working for the white paper. I wonder if you just got a bad batch of clear? My process is a lot less involved that what others are talking about in here, and I haven't had this sort of issue with any of my papers (white, clear, or "thin clear")

[matopotato]

That's weird.

When your decal is drying, are you making sure that the edges are absolutely adhered? The one thing I've seen is: I get the decal placed, the edges are all laying down flat, I come back to it ~10 minutes later (so it's not really dry yet) and the edges of the decal have some slight undulations in them that need to be burnished down again. I've never tried to clear coat over that, so I don't know how it would go—the first time it happened, I didn't notice it until the decal was completely dry, and I didn't trust that it would hold so I just removed it and started over with a new decal; since then, I've been aware of it and have made sure that they were really REALLY flat before proceeding with clear.

It doesn't sound like it's a problem with your process though, since it's working for the white paper. I wonder if you just got a bad batch of clear? My process is a lot less involved that what others are talking about in here, and I haven't had this sort of issue with any of my papers (white, clear, or "thin clear")

Thanks for your thoughts, I will keep an eye open for the edges.
One one of the curled ones I noticed that it is very easy to make the curl worse. Seems the glue is not that good after all.
How did you burnish it back? Some more water?
I am thinking of also re-doing some of the failed ones although unboxing some us a challenge given how hard it was to fit them in the first place.
If so I will try whites where I can.
Some with brushed aluminum or "metallic sparkly" surface will have to stay on transparent though.
I have worked through several clear coat cans, so probably not any individual failing. And they do well for the other decals.
Might try a different brand though.