Onboard effects anyone?

[JTEX]

If there's anyone other than myself with an interest in onboard effects, I might know a thing or two about it. Ask me anything

[Mark Hammer]

My view, for the last 45 years is that if it can be done better on the floor, then it should be done on the floor, and reserve the guitar for those things that are only, or better, done on the guitar itself.

Onboard FX may seem cool, but limit your choices.

[GibsonGM]

Call me a purist, but if you need to rout out the body of the axe, I get squeamish.  "Muh Tone!".  I don't like to remove wood, or have a battery die or something else go wrong while playing.

I do like to have a HB split toggle switch under the middle tone control of my strat, tho.

[Mark Hammer]

Call me a purist, but if you need to rout out the body of the axe, I get squeamish.  "Muh Tone!".  I don't like to remove wood, or have a battery die or something else go wrong while playing.

I do like to have a HB split toggle switch under the middle tone control of my strat, tho.

1) I'm equally squeamish, but a lot of things can be installed in a guitar without having to remove any wood whatsoever.
2) An HB split (coil cancel) is a prime example of something one can't do OFF the guitar, that needs to be done ON the guitar.

I shouldn't be too much of an absolutist, though.  I have a Casio MG-510 MIDI guitar.  It provides a MIDI 1.0 code output, with some minimal remote control over tone generators (e.g., program change), and none of that could be easily done offboard, UNLESS one was using current-generation DSP that could take a standard mono pickup output and quickly recognize up to 6 individual notes for encoding/processing.  In other words, it would NOT require a divided pickup and all the onboard electronics required to condition those 6 individual signals, and the power for doing so.  But that illustrates the role that technological change plays in identifying what is best done onboard, vs what could be done well, and maybe even better, offboard.  It's a changing landscape.

[mozz]

If there's anyone other than myself with an interest in onboard effects, I might know a thing or two about it. Ask me anything

Future build is a Tele with a spirit in the sky fuzz, probably a fuzzrite. Maybe add a tonebender to do some Page stuff. That's about my limit on onboard effects.

[mzy12]

Most interesting for onboard effects would be something like a fuzz into an variable low-pass filter with resonance. Like having a synth cutoff knob on your guitar!

[JTEX]

My view, for the last 45 years is that if it can be done better on the floor, then it should be done on the floor, and reserve the guitar for those things that are only, or better, done on the guitar itself.

Onboard FX may seem cool, but limit your choices.

Agreed. However, the main reason why I did this is because, to me, it makes all the difference between practicing pretty much every day and procrastinating. Yes, I'm that lazy. All I have to do is to pick up the guitar and start playing, much like an acoustic. Earbuds stay always plugged in. Just pop them in ears and play -- even along a backing track piped into the Aux In. I could be lying down in bed, or be out in the backyard, even at the beach, and I have everything I need to play, with no setup or teardown. Definitely a niche use, for sure. Oh, and before you mention the Vox Amplug or similar. No. Been there, hated it, built this instead. It's basically an onboard Rockman, sounds good enough for the studio. Bypass it and it's a normal guitar.

[JTEX]

Most interesting for onboard effects would be something like a fuzz into an variable low-pass filter with resonance. Like having a synth cutoff knob on your guitar!

I have such a filter, but on a couple of basses, not a guitar.

[R.G.]

I wound up researching all of the 1960s Vox guitars' onboard effects a few years ago. Dug out the circuits, did PCBs, etc. Interesting stuff, but it did complicate the guitars a lot - room for knobs and switches, etc. Korg's reincarnation of some Vox branded guitars included some with an onboard speaker, might have had a headphone jack, can't remember.

[ElectricDruid]

If I may stare into my crystal ball for just a moment...<retrieves dusty crystal ball from understairs cupboard>

I see...<parting of mists deep in the crystal>...that this kind of thing is going to get more common in the future. With the rise of cheap DSP power, adding quality amp and effects modelling into the guitar for headphone practice will become ever easier. Having *one* guitar that can make the sounds of an acoustic, a tele, a strat, and an LP, and make those sounds played through a selection of the world's greatest amps? What's not to like? So that'll be the aim, and we're getting to the stage where the tech makes that possible, either sooner or later. DI Box? No need, just plug the guitar into the desk and pick your favourite sound on the phone app.

<the mists close in and the crystal goes dark>

All this said, I love the idea of a beat-up old axe with a filthy spirit fuzz on board. That's just a great old thing that there should be in the world. Do build it.

[Matthew Sanford]

My first electric was an old Sears with built in effects...which were not proper for the names given (I think the phaser just flipped the phase of the pickup!)

Still, I'd thought a capacitive sensor to ground after the volume pot would be great to get low growls

[Mark Hammer]

If I may stare into my crystal ball for just a moment...<retrieves dusty crystal ball from understairs cupboard>

I see...<parting of mists deep in the crystal>...that this kind of thing is going to get more common in the future. With the rise of cheap DSP power, adding quality amp and effects modelling into the guitar for headphone practice will become ever easier. Having *one* guitar that can make the sounds of an acoustic, a tele, a strat, and an LP, and make those sounds played through a selection of the world's greatest amps? What's not to like? So that'll be the aim, and we're getting to the stage where the tech makes that possible, either sooner or later. DI Box? No need, just plug the guitar into the desk and pick your favourite sound on the phone app.

<the mists close in and the crystal goes dark>

All this said, I love the idea of a beat-up old axe with a filthy spirit fuzz on board. That's just a great old thing that there should be in the world. Do build it.

Ever played a Line 6 Variax?  It lets the user select a model of this or that guitar, as well as a banjo, sitar, acoustic, and more.  Sounds reasonably good, BUT one never, and possibly can't, play a slab body guitar like an acoustic or big jazz box.  The body is a major part of the feel and consequent playing style.  But that's a separate thread.

[amptramp]

If you start with the vibrating wire filter and oscillator designs on page 52 here:

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/60s/1968/Radio-Electronics-1968-05.pdf

You have a good possibility of being able to get an infinite sustain from the oscillator that has no inductors or capacitors.  This could be modulated onto the power via carrier current and isolated from the rest of the circuit.  The six oscillators would have to be modified to provide more stability via an automatic gain control that would set the eventual output level so you could pluck the string at a certain level then come back the next day and the same level would be playing.  You would need an additional magnet but that can be done.

The neat thing about a carrier current system is that coupling through an RF transformer would give you complete circuit isolation, so you would never have a ground loop problem.

[Puguglybonehead]

I've toyed with the idea of building a guitar with onboard effects. For most situations it's probably not all that useful or practical. However, for a special purpose guitar, like maybe you've got a permit to busk in the subway station, then I could see doing it. Not having to worry about lugging around a pedalboard is what I'm thinking of. If you've got a situation where actually having whatever fx you consider 'essential' right at your fingertips, or for the sake of portability, then it makes sense. I've been sitting on the idea for a few years actually. I bought one of those Artec onboard distortion units that I've never unwrapped. I also bought one of those Guitar Fetish onboard delays. Come to think of it, I also bought an onboard submini-tube-booster (that has some SMD parts to deal with) that is still in the 'someday' pile. Maybe when I finally build that lightshow guitar (I also have some of that Rowlux Moiré Illlusion plastic in the closet gathering dust) those onboard effects might finally find a home.

[ThePracticalPeasant]

I have interest in this concept, I'll be following along if you go for it.

(My related project idea is to put a small amplifier and speaker along with a couple basic FX into a CBG / Diddly-bow, all powered by a LiPo battery pack)

[JTEX]

Well, I did develop a miniaturized (mostly) analog FX engine derived from the Rockman headphone amps of the 80s, with many changes and improvements to bring it into the 21st century. It runs off a single 9V battery and is small enough to fit in many guitars without extra routing. I have one in my main guitar. I also built a small run of pedals around it, which sold out. The problem is that almost everybody wants it in a pedal format and I'm trying to avoid pedals (I don't regularly use any). I'm more into onboard electronics, even belt packs, basically stuff that's more portable than a pedal board. I even built a couple of them into tins of Altoids just because I thought it was a cool challenge. I might have to eventually give in and just make them into another batch of pedals, but I'm first trying to see if I can find any DIYers who want to take the engine and customize it into their own creations, whatever form factor they like. Here's a link to my RockEngine:
jtex.ca/products/re

[bluelagoon]

Very nice design, Love the complexity of it all in the one box. A lot of work gone into every detail. Well done.