How about pedals using CD4049 chip?

[zener]

Like I said before, I planned to build the Insanity Box. I have all the parts except for the J201 FETS or any of its substitutes. If ever I will fail searching for those transistors, can you suggest any DIY pedal using CD4049? I prefer something I can use for metal solos.

I should have included this question with that for the TL071 :roll:  (sorry).

Another thing, do the letters after the CD4049 chip matter? I have seen AE, UB, B, UBCP etc. What I have is a Motorola MC14049UBCP.

Once again, thanks for any help :wink:

[AL]

Zener,

Some of the Snarling Dogs pedals used the 4049 chip.   The 3 legged dog at runnoff groove is based on this.  I *think* the snarling dogs may be based on the EH Hot Tubes pedals.  I could be -  and probably am - wrong about that one. BUT the 3 legged dog is here http://www.runoffgroove.com/   Good luck

AL

[gez]

Another thing, does the letters after the CD4049 chip matter? I have seen AE, UB, B, UBCP etc. What I have is a Motorola MC14049UBCP

Look for chips with UB as part of the code.  It simply means un-buffered (the buffered kind will oscillate at high gain).

The Double D is another to add to your list.  There are many others, but probably not that suitable for metal.  However, there's nothing to stop you designing your own - it's not rocket science!

[Ansil]

Zener,

Some of the Snarling Dogs pedals used the 4049 chip.   The 3 legged dog at runnoff groove is based on this.  I *think* the snarling dogs may be based on the EH Hot Tubes pedals.  I could be -  and probably am - wrong about that one. BUT the 3 legged dog is here http://www.runoffgroove.com/   Good luck

AL

the black dog, uses this chip from snarling dogs and it is similar to the eh hot tubes, but i think what is funny, is with about 8$ in parts..(one knob another switch and a couple of caps) you could turn it into a double D from runoff . that is funny. , as does the erogenous moan. also from SD.
i think that is what i will do , since it already has the jfet in front and in back.

i think one of the way huge pedals has it in there somewhere. don't remember where though.

[Mark Hammer]

Actually, one of the Snarling Dogs pedals (Tweedy Dog?) is pretty much an exact clone of the E-H Hot Tubes, minus the on-board power supply.  When I saw the schematic, I was pretty taken aback at how identical it was; not unlike the relationship between MXR and Ross pedals that existed for a while.

I haven't tried *every* possibility, but CMOS invertor-based distortions tend to fare better when aiming for tube-like grind and grunt (which is what the Hot Tubes and the Anderton Tube Sound Fuzz and all its variants aim for), rather than "searing, big bottom" tone.  Although, when people describe the goal as being a "metal" distortion, I'm not sure if that simply means enough gain to guarantee fuzziness, whatever the overall tone, or whether it necessarily means some sort of well-defined mid-scoop.  Ever since Tommy Lee stole Pamela away from me when we were out on that double date at the Dairy Queen I've been sort of out of touch with the big hair folks so I don't know how much players depend on pedals alone for the tone or how much they simply want a pedal to help an amp along and use the amp's controls to do the major work.  

In any event, I suspect most of us who have built 4049-based pedals appreciate them for their warmth rather than for any tonal outrageousness.  On the other hand, most folks rarely use more than 2 or 3 invertor stages, leaving the others fallow, and there is no reason why one couldn't exploit the substantial gain available from the 6 invertors, stick some mid-scoop circuit midway and use some of the leftover invertors to recoup from the scoop.  In other words, although most applications of the 4049 in distortion aim for "blues" territory, there does not seem to be any a priori reason why it could not be directed elsewhere,

[B Tremblay]

Ever since Tommy Lee stole Pamela away from me when we were out on that double date at the Dairy Queen

Still coping with the loss, huh?

[Mark Hammer]

Still coping with the loss, huh?

I've never been able to look at chocolate dip without crying ever since.  You know that scene in the Woody Allen movie "Everything you wanted to know about sex but were afraid to ask" where Gene Wilder is seen as a derelict in an alleyway with a bottle of Woolite, commiserating over his lost bliss with a sheep?  After that fateful evening at the DQ, I spent months sequestered away with a case of "Magic Shell", sobbing and dipping, sobbing and dipping.  Don't even get me started about how many days it takes to recover from watching someone eat a banana split.  Sprinkle nuts on top of anything and I dissappear in a fog of longing and melancholy.

You young guys don't know what real love is! :cry:

[B Tremblay]

[Ansil]

thats too funny




too funny..

[WGTP]

What happened to Frank Clark???

He had a simple 3 stage TSF variant that I modded for more drive and it sounds great.

[ErikMiller]

I'd love to check out that schematic. The Anderton TSF was the first box I ever built, 20 years ago, and I only ever used it with the Lead switch on.

I'm now looking to build one with more screeeeeeaaam.

[B Tremblay]

He had a simple 3 stage TSF variant that I modded for more drive and it sounds great.

Don't know where Frank is, but here's his Hot Harmonics page, courtesy of the Wayback Machine.

[petemoore]

Only ever built the Double D. ... but was asking the same quistion .... where's the other schems...
 I'm impressed with the 4049's sound, just like they say it's very Tube like. A heck of a thing...

[WGTP]

That's it Brian.  I put a 2 meg pot in the loop of the first stage, a 33K resistor in the 2nd stage gave it a lot more presence making it more like a distortion and less like a fuzz.  I didn't use the 1.5M and 2.2M resistors.  I removed the resistor between the 2nd and 3rd stage and put in in the loop of the 3rd stage for 220k in the last one.  It has a really 3 dimensional distortion, like you can hear the different stages clipping.  You could even add a 470K or 1 meg resistor in the final stage.

Highly recommended.  

[Ben N]

The links to the schematics don't work for me.

Ben

[Peter Snowberg]

Ben,

I was able to load all the schematics in this thread, maybe the load gremlins were playing when you tried.... Give it another shot.

Take care,
-Peter

[brett]

Hi.  When I was building a tube-sound fuzz (2 stages), and I think I stuffed up and left out the 100k resistor leading from the drive control into the first stage.  I think this reduced the input resistance from 100k+ 0 to 10k (drive pot) to only the 0 to 10k in the drive pot.  Anyway, the thing went totally wild, especially with the drive pot turned anywhere near max.  There was massive gain, occasional oscillations...etc.  

So I think that you probably only have to abuse 1 or 2 stages of a 4049 to get into the realms of heavy metal/sonic destruction.  Sometimes I think I might go back and build a tube-sound fuzz with, say a 2.4k input resistor instead of the 100k, so that it would be wild, but controllable.

[gez]

So I think that you probably only have to abuse 1 or 2 stages of a 4049 to get into the realms of heavy metal/sonic destruction..

Any multistage amp run at high gain will be prone to oscillation and you'll come up against this problem if you try and run inverters at full pelt.  There are methods to combat this, but they often reduce gain one way or another - often a further stage and less gain in each stage is a better way to go.  

There are also methods to ring every bit of gain out of each stage (run inverters at low voltage, decouple AC feedback in first stage, directly couple second stage without ANY feedback) but my own experience of just two stages is that there isn't enough sustain (well, for my liking) unless driven from another stage (another inverter/op amp/FET).

There isn't enough gain in one stage to get anything approaching metal, you'd need at least two.

Here's a post from earlier on in the year I made regarding Anderton's circuit.  This definitely gets you into the realms of sustained, screaming lead:

"I'm doing this from memory but I'm pretty sure it's right. Also, what constitutes a good distortion sound is totally subjective so please don't shoot me if you don't like my mods! The following relates to The Guitar Player circuit only.

Firstly, I changed the 39u Cap to 100u as I had problems with a high pitched whine. I connected a 3.3V zener between the cathode of the protective diode coming off the 9V rail and the Vdd pin of the 4049, and then wired a 100u cap from Vdd to ground. I got rid of the 1M and 2.2M resistors from the inverter's inputs to ground as well as the 1M from output to input of IC2b, then I directly coupled IC2b to IC2a (no 0.05u cap). This might sound a bit kamikaze (open loop gain!) but the output of IC2 is heavily loaded by the 10k pot so it's not a problem, you just get a slight increase in distortion. Eliminating the cap also gives a slightly better tone.

The zener is a really crude way of running the inverter off 5V. You can use a regulator but the zener mod works fine and is less space on the board. You need a certain amount of current draw for zeners to do what it says on the tin; with two stages of a 4049 it's just about feasible but I think I connected up a 100 ohm resistor between it and the Vdd pin to 'sharpen things up'.

There are a number of payoffs running things off this voltage. Current consumption is about a third of what it is at 9V (which can be pretty high). Open-loop gain is between 2-3 times more so you can get more gain if required. With less headroom distortion is increased so you don't have to drive the inverters so hard (less chance of op-amp clipping if it's set up for higher gain, though that's not relevant here - yet!). Also, bandwidth is reduced slightly which helps eliminate high end fizz.

The dist. pot is set up to reduce low end as gain increases and for me this was too thin at max dist. Also, inverters tend to have a thick soupy sound at low gain which I'm not keen on. To combat this I turned the pot till I got the bass response that I wanted (nothing to do with gain here), measured the resistance on the pot and replaced it with a fixed resistor. I then wired up the op-amp in non-inverting mode for a gain of about 10 to drive the hell out of the inverters!

Not mods for the 'pipe and slippers brigade' but worth mucking about with."

I stick with regulators these days, but the zener method works fine (especially if you're powering the circuit off the mains).

[WGTP]

If you just want a fuzz, 2 stages maxed works nicely, but if you want a great sounding distortion, my experiments indicate that 3 stages with less gain sounds better.

I found that using 1 meg in stage one and 22K - 33K in the second with 220K in the 3rd yielded a more amp like and less fuzzy distortion, which is what I wanted  

[Ansil]

try using all six inverters and just puttin between a 5X and 10X gain on each one.  nice and creamy.