Idea-why couldn't we start a co-op...

[dr]

I was thinking that every time I see an old obsolete/no longer in production/one of a kind pedal that sells on ebay for big bucks that we'll never get to see/map the guts and layout of-couldn't we start a co-op where all interested parties could pitch in a bit of cash to bid on/win,draw up schems/layouts to share in private with the investing co-op members(and promising not to post publicly) then resell/ebay/or auction to any and all members afterward to recoup/reinvest on other pedals?hope you understand this-I'm not too clear lately.....dr.....

[javacody]

That is a halfway decent idea, but I would suggest that you use the money from selling the pedal in getting boards made of the effect and distributing to the people who put up the money, and then selling any extras. I also don't see why you wouldn't make the schem publicly available? Isn't the point here to share?  

[Ansil]

i like both ideas.. but i think i see where javaco  moca something i forgot to copy yoru post in quotes.. anyway that woudl be great.. weal go in  on a way huge pedal. and then clone it.. find someone who does graphics somenoe whoe does boards. make some clones for people who want to geta clone..  sell the originall and saturate the ebay mrket with clones so we can finaly afford some crap.. yeah.. collapse the vintage guitar fx market.

[javacody]

Ansil, if you really wanted to go nuts, we could set up an assembly line, one guy would have an old pair of shit kickers on and stomp the hell out of each pedal for five minutes, the next guy would spray the pedal with a mixture of beer, sweat, whiskey, and vomit, and the last guy would leak a little battery acid into each battery compartment. Then we could sell them as vintage.  :twisted:

We wouldn't want to flood the market, we would just sell a few here and there on ebay. But we would have like 50 different "vintage" pedals of different makes and models up at any one time.

Edit: I want to make sure that it is clear that I am only joking here. Ripping people off is wrong. :x

[smoguzbenjamin]

You could of course sell it as a "vintage clone" just mention that it's based of vintage schematis but not the real thing.

Simple enough, no?  

[BillyJ]

we'll never get to see/map the guts and layout

Ok wait. Do you mean that you will share with EVERYONE here who asks just not on a public website? and not just with the folks who could pony up?

If your saying you would share with the entire community that is cool.
If you mean that only you guys who pony up some cash will benefit than I say the idea sucks ass.

And if the second applies than you really won't be hurt at all when someone posts here the idea to buy one of your clones and reverses it and resells the clone? With the twist of course that the schematic gets posted here for the benefit of all?

Yeah I know I am jumping to conclusions so forgive me if that is not your intentions.

I hope I have it wrong casue that would be a sweet idea indeed!!!

[troubledtom]

co ops can be cool!
    i belong to the commonsound and love it.
           peace,
               - tom

[Rory]

I'd definitely be interested, especially if we used some of the money to get boards made.  There are some pedals I'd love to buy, but are just too damn expensive.  Keep me updated, man.
Rory

[Ansil]

i think the people who poney up as ti si reffered to.. get a free board.. depending on how mujch they contribute.. lets say.. that
20 of us  chip in on a way huge swollen clitringasauros.. or what have you..

it goes for 1000$.. now lets say..

1 person gives 200$..  steep i konw but follow me on this.
1 gives 150

and the rest gives 36$ each.. now since everyone contributed i think we owe ti to the whole diy comunity to see the circuit and layout.. but the people who were the hard hitters.  automaticly get a board.. once the thing has been resold and we recoop.  the big hitters shoudl get parts to go with it..

now completely going the other way.. lets say this.. right now..

EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO CO OP  PUT 5$ BACK.  OK. AT LEAST 5$. EVEN I CAN DO THAT RIGHT NOW.  now that i have youra tttention i will shut off the capslock.    we all keep a running pool of this.. we elect a treasurer. i nominate petersnowberg.   when we have enough money to purchase somthing we put up a poll and see if majority wins..  when we  recoop the money by selling it.. back to an ebay sucker.   those who didn't want anything to do with the pedal there 5$ go back in the pot.  those who did. get a free board.

[MarkDonMel]

I'm a beginner in this hobby, but I can clearly see the benefits of this.  Even if I consider it an investment until I could actually do something with the knowledge it will provide, its still beneficial to me, and all.

I am interested in this, got a little dough to throw around too.

Matt.

[dr]

.....Billy,and everyone else-what I wasn't clear on were the SPECIFICS of how all this would be done-all this was put forth as an IDEA-I'm sure that with all the cool people here,we could all come up with some ideas to make this a fair deal for everyone in our forum community,so we could find another way to keep our passion for tone and tweaking more enjoyable and affordable,as well as creating a broader base of shared knowledge,or documentation.....like many others,I couldn't justify paying $1,000 dollars for that so-hard-to-find something just to tweak it (uncomfortably) and be stuck with it when it dies,when I'd rather pool money with friends and get all our minds to come up with a fair way to make clones AND docs for one you could be comfortable to tweak.....(and still be able to pay the rent)........

[Ansil]

lets start a poll then..

[drew]

Why don't you guys all agree to buy vintage pedals, take them apart, copy the schematics, and if you don't want 'em, put them back on ebay. As far as I know, that is how a lot of "vintage" schematics made it to the web in the first place.

Or would that be too easy?


drew
www.toothpastefordinner.com

[The Tone God]

This is a intersting idea but you have to becareful as to which pedals you pick to reverse engineer. The issue of stepping on copyrights, IP, patents, and general respect for a builders wishes comes into play. We don't know if certain builders would like to have their work published even if the effect is not in production.

I don't want this to turn into disscussion about the legimitacy of IP protection but it should be something your aware of.

Andrew

[Dan N]

I think we have been something of a co-op for a long time. I have a folder teeming with hundreds of schematics I have gotten from the web. Guys like R.G., Stellen Lehrner (?), Aron, Jack, Charlie, Mark Hammer, Kate, the GGG guys, and so many others have been tracing and scanning stuff for years. Shit, R.G. just shelled out $400 to get the low down on the Big Cheese! Out of his own pocket!

We are really lucky. There are actually damn few boxes on ebay that have not been either traced or have service manuals available.

Something that might be really useful would be a serious clearing house for links to schematics. Sometimes I have to check Schematics, Schematics 2, geofex, ggg, tonepad, here-there-everywhere looking for something I'm sure I saw somewhere?

The new analogguru site has a nice format for such a thing. Click Ibanez and see a list of their effects. Click SD-9 and pow- go to where someone has uploaded the scheme to an SD-9. Happy days. Just a matter of filling in the spaces.

Anyway, we are a blessed bunch.

Dan

[brett]

The co-op idea is a cool one.  Could I suggest that you sell "shares" for a reasonable price.  If one of these extra rare pedals is gunna cost $500 and you sell it again on e-bay for $450 (net of selling costs), there's not much in cost if it's spread across 10 or 20 share-holders.  The main cost would be if the share-holders were offered free boards rather than a schematic.  That'd be an extra $5 -$10 each.  I guess what I'm suggesting is that an initial pool of about $500 plus about 20 shares at $10 each would cover the cost of buying and re-selling a pedal, plus making a board up for each shareholder.

Because I'm in Australia it would be impractical for me to make the boards, but I'd be happy to help by designing the layouts from the schematics, if that's of any use.

Good idea, dr.

[Rory]

I am mainly interested in older pedals that are extremely expensive on the market right now.  Like I stated earlier, I'd love to throw in some cash to get the pedal, copy the schem and layout, perhaps put it back on ebay, recoup some expensies, but mainly invest in some boards that we could either sell, distribute, or keep (if I put some money on the thing, I'd at lesat like a board).  
I'm also EXTREMELY interested in very rare/weird pedals, even if they're just a plain distortion box.  I think pedals are a work of art, even in their simplist form.  I'd like to get my hands on as many effects/schematics as possible, especially if no one has even heard of the thing.
That said, I want agree with Andrew and agree that if the thing is still in production, we should maybe not free distribute.  BUT, I don't see the moral delema with cloning for personal use.  Honor system I suppose.  We paid for a used copy, and the original manufacturer got his money for that pedal.  I'm sure that some people will disagree with me and think that he/she should get money for our just cloning it, but I don't see a problem with it.  Anywho, I'm down.  

I recently looked at this pedal on ebay and have never heard of it.  Maybe its not expensive enough for a co-op, maybe its a great price for the first try.  Let me know.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2576752861&category=41415

Edit:  I meant to say more about the pedal...  I don't know what it is, perhaps a univibe/chorus type pedal.  Maybe its a clone of something else?  Anyone know?  Its the first time I've heard of it.  Thanks!

Rory

[BillyJ]

I have to ask this but what is the deal with lovetone and the big cheese?
That is a pedal in production but it has been reversed by RG and Jack.
What gives with the lovetone dude...we not no love for him?
I am just wondering because it the very type of situation where I am completely confused on what is acceptable and why.
Granted I haven't seen that guy ever post something useful here but neither has the Crowther guy from what I can tell.
I think it is a good idea but I see some big pitfalls that could come from it.


I know I know.. I will just keep fooling with the simple ideas I have and when they come together I will call them the Cornished Turkey (TM)
I will sell them for oodles of money.....like oh say $5000 for starters and then ya'll could pitch in and reverse the som bitch all day long and make boards or whatever the heck ya want :twisted:

Could be a good idea though. I know I'd still like to see a Mutron Octave Divider  :wink:

[ErikMiller]

My suggestion is that the collective only purchase and dissect pedals that are out of production.

This eliminates a lot of legal and ethical harangue, and makes the information gathered more useful to the artisans as well as the hobbyists.

[Peter Snowberg]

I have to ask this but what is the deal with lovetone and the big cheese?
That is a pedal in production but it has been reversed by RG and Jack.
What gives with the lovetone dude...we not no love for him?

That's a very good question. :?

-Peter