The Sound of Distortion

[amz-fx]

Can you hear the 0.002% difference between opamps or the 0.001% extra distortion contributed by a cheap electrolytic capacitor?  I've devised a test for you...   the Sound of Distortion:

http://www.muzique.com/lab/main.htm

Enjoy!

regards, Jack

[Chris R]

i guess i dont have the golden ear.

Chris R

[Tim Escobedo]

I hear a overtone pop in about 1/3 into the wav, continuing to the end. But that's it. Was there supposed to be more stuff going on after that?

[Fret Wire]

Sounded like something happened right in the middle of the clip. Or not! lol

[MarkB]

Thanks, Jack..
I sent that to all my 'audiophile' friends...
"-)

[brett]

Thanks Jack.  That 1% distortion sure is subtle.  I'm guessing, but it sounded to me like you took the distortion out about 4 seconds into the file (the tone seemed to drop a little, which I figured would be 2nd harmonic dissappearing).  I totally agree with your proposition that many component changes won't be making audible differences.  There's definately a lot of psychological factors (expectations, etc) operating when people swap components.  On the other hand, there's reasons besides simple harmonic distortion for swapping *some* components.  Low noise and restrained behaviour under large transients are two important reasons (e.g. for non-standard op-amps in tubescreamers).  

Thanks again for the cool test.

[Ansil]

i have creative mediaplayer, and i replayed this around thirty times and still come up with the same thing,  around 3 second mark i heard somehting i didnt' like. kind of made my ears warble.  dont' know what it was, but i hear it everytime

[Nasse]

Is there distortion first, then off?

[bwanasonic]

Hmm- not sure if that is the ideal sample length for this test. It sounds to me like something cuts out about 3-4 seconds into the wav. Also wonder wonder what effect different playback software has, as I can't really say which which part of the wav sounds *better*. I appreciate the effort to provide a *reality check* for various audio hokum though. Unfortunately, a "Don't confuse me with the facts* attitude is fairly common among musicians. We all have our areas of gullibilty- I have always been supicious of people who claim to be able to hear the difference between opamps in a TS808/TS9 circuit, but have no problem believing in a *holy grail* transistor in a Rangemaster or Fuzz Face. I can surely hear a difference between a ceramic and metal film cap for the input cap of a Rangemaster, but I basically take it on faith that tants sound better than electros in my Orange Squeezer. Jack- I feel you are very influential in this area, and maybe you can have do a *Mythbusters*  on some of the hype surrounding effects.

Kerry M

[Luke]

I DEFINATELY hear a change at the 3 second point- after this, it seems (to me) that the sound is not as 'wholesome'- not as sweet. I hear just a faint underlying harmonic frquencythat lowers in pitch. Is that corrct?

Interesting!
Luke

[Samuel]

Haha, my visualization in Windows Media Player spoiled the game a little bit, at least as to exactly where the difference happens...

[Oliver]

That is very interesting.... and an argument for the Voodoo, that is made
around the Guitarsound.
Is there a difference between OPamps too?
I build a Tubescreamer Circuit and used a NE5532 IC, that sounds as i want a Tubescreamer to sound like...

Later i ordered some electronical parts and ordered some JRC4558 and
to compare - RC4558 (a cheap alternative to the magic TS IC)...

As i compared these 3 ICs in my circuit i wondered, that they all sound
the same, with only a very little bit of difference in the Soundcharacter.
The JRC4558 sounds with a bit more mids and seem to bee slithly more
agressive than the NE5532.
The RC4558 comes in the middle of the two other ones.

If i think i play on Stage, no one of my Bandassociates and on one
in the audience will hear any difference of the ICs in my Overdrive.
And i doubt, that anyone in the audience will be able to hear the type
of Overdrive, that i use.....

But many people seem to look for those magic equipment and like to pay
hundreds of bugs for "that" sound.

so long

Voodoo ON!

Oliver

[Ansil]

this has inspired me to wonder how well we can hear modulation so i have put together a little clip to see if you can determine which modulation device has been applied to the clip,

this is only a test.

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:      http://www.geocities.com/austenfantanio//wtf.htm    :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[amz-fx]

I don't want to reveal where the switch is, nor which tone is first so that it won't spoil it for anyone.  If you really want to know, send me an email and I'll be glad to tell you.

Think about how subtle the tone difference is...  especially since we are dealing only with pure tones here, and how much harder 1% distortion would be to hear in a more complex signal like a guitar note..  Think about how much less noticeable it would have been had I made it 0.1% distortion, which is still 100x more than that produced in a cheap capacitor.  

Opamps can make a difference, depending on the circuit and the application, but it is far less than commonly believed...

This is just a fun test and for educational purposes only.

regards, FX Mythbuster      

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

we are dealing only with pure tones here, and how much harder 1% distortion would be to hear in a more complex signal like a guitar note..  

Well I'm certainly clotheared, and certainly no 'high ender', but in all fairness, it is surely much easier to hear distortion in a complex wave, because then you have very noticeable intermodulation effects, rather than pure harmonics. It is a standard test technique, to feed in two notes a once and look for the products.

[Davefx]

There's no hope... After 32 years of playing and 20+ in the bars, my ears are shot!

[Steve C]

Seems you unknowingly sabotaged your own inquiry by insinuating the two clips could possibly be of different lengths in time, and subliminally tricking people to try and listen for something that's not there.  Knowing they're both continual throughout.   :?

Maybe next you could put two farts in the same jar and ask people to identify which one smells worse.   :lol:

I'll pass. :twisted:

[troubledtom]

i could and put the scope to it. but in all fairness i can't tell a difference w/
these speakers on my computer. cool test though.
           thanx jack,
                   - tom :wink:

[amz-fx]

There is no trick involved.  It is exactly as I have stated.

I chose 1% distortion because that is the threshold at which many people can begin to perceive the added  distortion component.

The object is to make you think and open up your mind.  Can you hear the difference? Good!  It is hard to hear? Is it merely a wispy suggestion of a tonal change? Now imagine it at 1000x smaller levels...

I use different opamps for different purposes.  There are reasons to do so but I don't get worried if I want to put a 4558DD in a circuit and only have 4558D chips!  I also use non-polar capacitors instead of electrolytics wherever I can, because they are typically better construction and will last longer. There might be other sound reasons too.

Interestingly, I posted the info about this test at Harmony Central, where they are hundreds more visitors per hour than on this forum and only one person has commented about listening to it so far.   Chips replacements and cap mods are the big rage over there and I thought it would generate more hate mail than it has!   :shock:  :shock:

regards, Jack

[Boofhead]

Jack, the HiFi community has been asking these questions for years.  It's generally accepted that harmonic distortion is hardest to detect with single tone sine waveforms.   A lot of audible differences are attributed to overload recovery for example ie. cases where things are so "nice" and controlled.