In case you wanted a through-zero-flanger

[Mark Hammer]

I'm with Ton here.  The posted project certainly makes it easy......IF you have a pair of TDA1097's at your disposal...but there is nothing magic about this design, particularly since it lacks any on-board modulation capability and modulation options are often what make the difference between an also-ran and a magical effect.

Anderton was hawking TZF over 20 years ago, and laid out how to do it with two digital delays (infamous for their pathetic modulation capabilities at that time) in his Digital Delay Handbook.

In theory, anyways, you could "TZF-ify" any flanger.  Make yourself a simple MN/BL3207+MN3102 delay module, set for a fixed delay of a millisecond or so.  The clocking frequency for that delay time out of that BBD is high enough that you can probably afford to go very light on the lowpass filtering.  Interrupt the straight signal path to the mixing stage, insert the fixed delay and away you go.

If you have a Deluxe Electric Mistress, which I believe you do (maybe even a few of them, you sick puppy), it's even easier since you can derive a separate wet and dry signal at the output jacks.  Run them into a mixer, with the fixed delay built into the mixer and you don't even have to monkey around inside your flanger.

[Bill Bergman]

Oh well then... if any one wants a useable pcb layout, it's done.

I'll just go piss on the fire and call the dogs :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[puretube]

the "secret " of a do-able, reproducable un-whineing
(he who dunnit before, knows what it means...) TZF-circuit
is not so much in the schematic, but in the final (PCB) layout.
(I bet Sir Fox can tell stories about that...).

In the context of the HSR publication, you can read it between the lines.

If you breadboard 2 BBD delay-lines of more or less well-known DIY projects, you will get an idea of what it will (should) sound like,
but similar to some known ring-modulator projects, you`ll experience annoying "bleedthrough" of beat-frequency oscillations of the 2 clock generators. ("heterodyning").

[ExpAnonColin]

A datasheet would be nice, although I have a feeling reverse engineering wouldn't be too difficult given that the "infinite flanger" chip divides/multiplies the clock signal in the same way as whatever chip you're going to use.

-Colin

[uncle boko]

There was another infinite flanger  - the WEM one which used 2x MN 3004. I'm sure I mailed scans of the circuits to someone a couple of years ago. This one works with 2 LFOs going in opposite directions. I seem to have deleted the scans from my laptop but probably still have the circuits somewhere.

[PhasetheMusic]

What would be the result of two flangers run in parallel?  My intuition is that if they were identical, but slightly offset, that they would have a considerable area of cancellation.  Seems like it might be a lot more interesting than a single flanger and a fixed delay line.

[Mark Hammer]

You're confusing two things.  Running a pair of flangers in parallel generates more "animation" and a certain pleasing aperiodicity, yes.  What happens with TZF is different though.

I should emphasize that even with TZF, it isn't all that different from "normal" flanging...except for one tiny, but ever so crucial, part of the sweep.  At the lowest point in its sweep (i.e., the most delay generated, producing notches and resonant peaks low in the frequency spectrum), TZF is absolutely no different than any of the cheapest cheeziest $20 flangers you can buy.  Where it differs significantly is that at its highest sweep point (i.e., shortest delay), a) it keeps going where most typical flangers stop short (and even though the A/DA Flanger gets pleasingly close to that ideal, it still falls short), b) it results in a momentary cancellation that feels like the sound was sucked right out and squirted back in again.  This creates a certain type of tension, followed by relaxation, that is very powerful, and very distinctive.  In truth it is often probably more powerful when applied to an entire mix than an individual instrument (e.g., things like "Axis Bold as Love"), but if the focus of a mix is a single instrument that can still be powerful too.

In principle, you CAN produce TZF by having two wet-only swept delays working against each other.  One of them will eventually cross through zero delay relative to the other.  In general, though, design is easier and more predictable, I should think, by sweeping one delay against a fixed brief delay.

[V!N]

Mark !

What would your thoughts be on this one ?
http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/jh_storm_tide_flanger.html

[Bill Bergman]

I've built . It's a real buger to build. So difficult, I can't even believe I was sucessful. I had to make a layout first. It took 3 or 4 pcb's.

[V!N]

I've built . It's a real buger to build. So difficult, I can't even believe I was sucessful. I had to make a layout first. It took 3 or 4 pcb's.

Billman !

Wow, did you made "a" Storm Tide Flanger or one like JH made ?
How does it sound ?

And did you get my mail about the Ultimate Flanger ?

[V!N]

And did you get my mail about the Ultimate Flanger ?

Oh, you did ! I just got your reply.

[puretube]

Mark !

What would your thoughts be on this one ?
http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/jh_storm_tide_flanger.html

Hi Dutchie (no offense, as you know...)

There is a reason (or 2) why Juergen Haible built this one, and did not build a "real" TZ-Flanger. (he`ll tell ya on his website..., and I mentioned it quite early in this thread...)

I congrat Dave Fox to have done it;

he will sure be able to tell y`all `bout groundplanes (see othe thread).

B.T.W.: J.Haible lives 10 miles away - we`re mailing - but haven`t had a chance yet to drink a cup o coffee or other serious stuff...[/i]

[V!N]

Hi Dutchie (no offense, as you know...)

None taken, my dearest kraut

There is a reason (or 2) why Juergen Haible built this one, and did not build a "real" TZ-Flanger. (he`ll tell ya on his website..., and I mentioned it quite early in this thread...)

I mailed Jürgen earlier today about his modded ARP Quadra Phase Shifter. I'm looking for some phase/flange/thing to do on the side while EdJ and I build JC's Vibe with many mods.

I haven't given that much attention to the Storm Tide Flanger, but my eyes did catch the "thru-zero" when I glazed at his neatly designed faceplate and quickly scanned the text.

.. there, I've read the whole of it now. No ---0--> through zero indeed and good reasons for that as well.
Man, I keep tellin' ya, them synth DIY'ers sure know some stuff !

B.T.W.: J.Haible lives 10 miles away - we`re mailing - but haven`t had a chance yet to drink a cup o coffee or other serious stuff...[/i]

You should ! Judging by the tone of voice in his texts, he's a nice feller. And he's a DIY'er, they're often nice fellers, as you know.
I'd say you have him over at your beerfest and drink him under the table.

B.T.W.: Your fest end when mine will begin. The 7th of june is my birthday and I usually have a few beers then.

[puretube]

dunno if I got your reply 100% correctly:
but I do know that the heterodyning clocks can make you mad!!!
(which again leads ya back to the "groundplane"-thread)

[puretube]

Wow - my favorite Radio-DJ played "Nathan Jones" from 1971 by the "Supremes"  last sunday...
Instant-Thru-Zero-Flashback...
(though I never liked the song/record itself - except for that sound!)

("Bertha Butt Boogie"  by the "Jimmy Castor Bunch" (1975) had some TZF, too)

[StephenGiles]

The best TZF will always be Ichycoo Park by the Small Faces - incidentally, Faces have reformed for a tour next year although Rod Stewart is unlikely to sing.

[DougH]

It's the outro of Todd Rundgren's "Number 1 Lowest Common Denominator" for me.

[Caferacernoc]

I always liked the intro to The Cars "Your all I've got tonight" for cool flange. Sounds like TZF to me.

[Rodgre]

Cars doesn't sound TZ if you ask me. Sounds more like a great sounding pedal. MXR maybe.

"The Big Hurt" by Toni Fisher was the first TZ Flanging, as far as I know. Itchykoo is an awesome example of it. Queen had some great uses of it like the chorus of "Killer Queen".

[armdnrdy]

I remember some years ago, sending Mark Hammer a PM asking if he had a data sheet for the TDA1097.
I had scoured the net and came up empty. Mark didn't have the data sheet "proper"...but did supply me with a drawing outlining the pin out and necessary specs.

Jump to 2015...still no data sheet to be had.

While looking through R. M. Marston's Audio IC's User Handbook, I came across various information on the 1097 spread out among the pages of the audio delay section.

I collected the info and put together a "faux" data sheet.

PDF:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/TDA1097%20data.pdf