Hi-resolution photos

[aron]

Here's a question. I think we know that if we reverse and redraw our own schematics, it's ok.

Now how about hi-resolution photos? Is it ok, to post them, or are they also intellectual property similar to original schematics?

If not, I think we should have a library of circuit photos.

That I would be willing to host.

[smoguzbenjamin]

If I designed something and there was a hi-res pic of it up I sure wouldn't mind. Mind you when I stop being lazy I'm going to put all the stuff I made up on my site.

[Triffid]

I am kind of a beginner and don't really design my own pedals from scratch yet... but if I did I wouldn't see a difference between posting a pcb layout or posting a high res pic of the pc board.  

I guess you would have to really look at the reason why people don't want their pcb's floating around.  Is it because they don't want people to build clones? Is it because the want to make it harder for people to clone? For that matter, I don't see a difference in posting a schematic and posting and posting a pcb layout.  It seems the only difference is the difficulty level for someone to clone it.  To me... if I didn't want people cloning my pedal... I would be as upset seeing a schematic posted as I would a pcb layout.  

Now, I know there are legal issues involved... but I am trying to look past that to the real reason why people don't want pcb layout's floating around... any thoughts?

[jsleep]

Aron,

You've been reading my mind.  If you do host it, count me in, I've got some very good hi-res photos of a few things I haven't seen on the net and they are DIY-friendly views if you know what I mean.

Let me know.  My site traffic is already thru the roof and climbing every month, so I haven't posted them on my site.  I think most of the good photos I have are around 300-400kb each range.

JD

[Peter Snowberg]

I think photos would be very educational from the standpoint of seeing the construction methodology that companies use at different volumes, but as an aspiring pedal seller, this is exactly why I have a bunch of "obscurants" in my bookmarks.

You can get past glycidyl epoxy with a modified soldering iron, but luckily there are other types that are not so easily breeched.

The amount of circuit copying out there keeps pushing me more and more toward designs that make it harder on the cloners. Maybe if more people figured out how hard it was to make a living at pedals there would be far fewer copies floating around. Anybody who wants to see for themselves can check out this utility. (now in rev 1.1)

On the legal front, this might be walking the line. I don't know. The layout is copyrighted, even without the inclusion of the (C) symbol. Copyright law says you have to change something 30% for the copyright to stop applying. I don't think anybody could claim to be making a parody of a pedal.

That's just my 2 cents.

As a hobbyist, would I like to see the pics? I sure would!

Take care,
-Peter

[troubledtom]

well if i count, i'd say if the pedal is out of production, then it should be cool.
but , i don't know all the laws. RG or jack will likely chime in and give us some more answers , i'm sure.
                peace,
                     - tom pollock

[BillyJ]

I am not a lawyer but I think the only protection question here involve the rights of the person who took the photo rather than the layout.
A picture of the layout cannot be protected no matter what copyright law you have.
Only when you use a layout as a layout are you going to have trouble.
Otherwise it could be just art ;O)

Sorry but I think that is the loophole. You could post a picture of a layout and rip on how lame it is (or isn't) and I think that falls inot either parody or commentary....

I think that is how it works and there isn't a law to protect anyone.
I think if there were Mr. Huge might have mentioned it to us when the picture of his pickle was posted.

I would be much more concerned about people submitting photos the didn't take or don't have the rights to distribute.

All my opinion so DON'T take it for gospel.

[bobbletrox]

I remember seeing a site that had the guts of a few older pedals...it was really interesting.

I'm all for the idea!

[javacody]

If I can post a photo of the guts of a pedal to sell it, then I sure as hell can post it for learning purposes. I'm willing to bet that the previous point that the law will only protect the photographer's rights is correct.

[Peter Snowberg]

If I can post a photo of the guts of a pedal to sell it, then I sure as hell can post it for learning purposes. I'm willing to bet that the previous point that the law will only protect the photographer's rights is correct.

Don't be too sure. Copyright law is a funny thing especially when you start talking about things that start to become nebulous.  Much of it depends on how good your I.P. lawyer is when you walk on the fence.

"Fair use" covers much of this if not all of it, but it's possibly illegal to right click and "save as", all depending on what your plans are. I wonder how this covers copyrighted material that finds its way into your cache. :?

I'm not an attorney and I don't even play one on TV, but the law concerning this is all found under Title 17. Chapter 1, Section 107 is where you'll find fair use. I get a headache every time I try to read legalese.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/

I would just hate to see some middle to large sized company with an aggressive attorney cause problems for this proposed library. I also worry because I've independently designed more than one circuit that I've seen turn up here as a DIY idea or in a commercial design. For instance, my version of the Little Gem is 17 years old now and I have lots of witnesses, but I don't have proof when it comes to the rest of my designs. When the goal and the parts to make the goal happen are the same, you can bet that multiple people will come up with the same idea. It's just going to happen.

Honestly, I have a very love/hate relationship with the whole concept of I.P.

In the end, I would still love to see a photo archive for the benefit that it could bring the whole DIY community.

OK, I think I’m done rambling now.

Take care,
-Peter

[Hal]

Mr. Huge had a legal problem with the picture of the SP staying up, but not the schematic...

[Alpha579]

Definetly! Great Idea  

[javacody]

Well, I'm not going to speculate anymore on the law, but people need a way to learn, and one of the best ways to learn is to see how others have done it. One of the basic tenets of our system is that you can't exactly duplicate a patent, but you sure as hell can come up with your own improvements and patent those. How do you do this without studying what the other guy did first?

Peter, I understand your desire to protect yourself, and from my interactions with you, I would say that your nature tends to slide more towards almost giving too much.     Thanks for sharing your experience. My hope would be that the experience and good karma you're building up will be enough to offset any profit you may lose.

[Peter Snowberg]

Thanks Javacody.

Hey!, :lol: did you notice that was post 386 for you? :lol: How's that for Karma!

Take care,
-Peter

[Steve C]

:oops:  nevermind

[Ed Rembold]

I'm not a lawyer,
but I have an opinion on this-

If I knew that someone was going to post a hi-res photo of one of my
boards- I'd go berzerk!
It would be enough to make me get out the JB weld, to at least slow you guys down a little.

I vote "no"..... don't do this to stuff still in production.

Ed R.

[brett]

Why make a library of photos?  If people want the PCB, we should be posting ready-to-use PCBs (like FP does over at tonepad.com).  Similarly with layouts - a photo is going to lead to all sorts of confusion between red and brown bands, unusual parts, etc.  Why not just post a parts overlay?  Again, like the tonepad, geofex, GGG etc sites.  

Or am I missing something here about the value of a photo?

[Tim Escobedo]

I kinda doubt there's be any legal barrier to posting photos of the insides, or outsides for that matter, of pedals. Of course, that won't stop a lawyer with a client willing to spend the money.

I'd vote for more information across the board, not just on extinct products.

That being said, I'm not sure what value such pictures would have once the schem is traced. Except to act as some kind of weird geek porn.

[Joep]

Creating a schem from a picture something I like to do to kill some time. (Other people make crossword puzzles....) So yeah, send the pic's in. Let's start with the out-of-production pedals (Lovetone Doppelganger  :wink: ). By the time we have finished them more stuff will be out-of-production.....

[aron]

Why make a library of photos?  If people want the PCB, we should be posting ready-to-use PCBs (like FP does over at tonepad.com).  Similarly with layouts - a photo is going to lead to all sorts of confusion between red and brown bands, unusual parts, etc.  Why not just post a parts overlay?  Again, like the tonepad, geofex, GGG etc sites.  

Or am I missing something here about the value of a photo?

How do you think the schematics got on the web? Someone had to reverse them.