OT: about web arguments

[smoguzbenjamin]

Guys, what's happened? More and more I see people flaming each other and arguing about totally silly things. There's no point to it and what do you have to gain from it?

Remeber that everyone's just reading strange-looking characters on a comfortable bluey background. Sometimes words and sentences can have two meanings, which are left to be interpreted. Also I see loads of people arguing about ethics. Ethics, in my opinion, is something that we can discuss but not argue about. It's a touchy subject but flaming is completely unnecessary. Once again that's my opinion, feel free to disagree with me.

Let me just ask everyone to chill out and think twice before they get mad about something and post something nasty. We're all human and we all make mistakes, so let's be considerate and remember that. When someone screws something up you can comment differently than just going "you're an <insert rude word here>!"

[BillyJ]

agreed  

[RDV]

FULL MOONAH Ah Ah oooooooooo!!!

Regards

RDV

[Rodgre]

I also blame it on the harsh winter we've had here in the Northeast US.

There are other boards I frequent that I've completely given up posting on because of a few evil bastards who do nothing all day but wait for unsuspecting posters to say something they can pounce upon.

Lately, I've honestly grown so tired of the internet forum culture. There are so many people out there who aren't at all interested in community or being helpful. They live to start fights, make people feel bad and ruin everyone's parade. Maybe it's a new sport. I'm not interested.

I've realized that, as someone said, this is just a box with letters and a blue background. When I start getting offended or if someone starts something with me (and I'm typically the "nice" guy on every forum I post on) I shut the computer off and do something productive.

Sometimes these trolls make some of these web forums feel like kindergarten. Everytime I feel like I want to retort and sink to their level, I think about my mortgage payments, and taking care of my mother, or worrying about my girlfriend driving home through rush hour, or one of the records I am proud to have produced.... then I realize that I need to leave kindergarten.

Compassion and consideration, folks. I realize that on a forum like this, we're dealing with young teens and "experienced" folks looking forward to retirement. It's a great community and there are many of us here to learn, and many of us here to teach. There are also many different personalities and many different moods, not to mention many different cultures who have different values and different ways of expressing themselves.

Be tolerant and be courteous. Be funny. Be helpful. Be inquisitive. This is the place for that.

And I thank Aron sincerely for this place.

Roger

[smoguzbenjamin]

I realize that on a forum like this, we're dealing with young teens and "experienced" folks looking forward to retirement. It's a great community and there are many of us here to learn, and many of us here to teach. There are also many different personalities and many different moods, not to mention many different cultures who have different values and different ways of expressing themselves.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make. Once again we are only human

[smoguzbenjamin]

edit:

:lol: never mind, after re-reading this post I realised that I was contradicting myself. I gotta get some sleep

[The Tone God]

I will publicly say that I am quite bothered by what has been happening around here recently. This one of the last bastions of civil inteligence left on the web. I don't like seeing it being dragged down by pointless bickering. There are some obvious trolling/flamebaiting and some not so obvious. Some has even been unintentional I belive.

I would just like to say people lighten up. This is suppost to be fun otherwise we wouldn't be into DIY. Next time you start to write a nasty post think about how much that post will contribute to the cause. If its just nasty remarks then hit the back button. Rise above the immaturity like the educated people we are.

Now go build something to take the music world by storm.

Andrew

[Lurco]

no offense: I like your posts and your website, and the subjects you take care of! (I really do!).
But your moniker?
I`m not too religious, but others may be?

E.C. has had his problems with similar things.

[The Tone God]

no offense: I like your posts and your website, and the subjects you take care of! (I really do!).
But your moniker?
I`m not too religious, but others may be?

Thanks for the compliments. I'm glad you didn't take offsenive to anything because I never intended any and never will.  

Just for the record the nickname is a running gag amoungst some of my clients. Its purely a joke and not to be taken too seriously just like me. I do sign my real name on my posts so people can refer to it if they feel uncomfortable with the nickname.

Once again no offensive is intended with the nickname.

Andrew

[niftydog]

This is one of the friendliest places I've visited on the net.  I sure hope it stays that way too!  After all, we can all learn from each other, regardless of age or experience.

Hell, we all had a great time in the Chat room the other day!  Props to MarkB for getting the ball rolling on that one!


Just lets all remember that we come here for help with our shared hobby, there should be no need for "one-up-man-ship" here.

smoguzbenjamin, try visiting the sci.electronics series of newgroups and you'll appreciate what we have here!  I too have given up visiting these and other electronic newsgroup because of the incredible arogance of some of the posters.

The most amazing thing was that restraining orders and law suits have stemmed from arguements online.

[Paul Marossy]

"There are other boards I frequent that I've completely given up posting on because of a few evil bastards who do nothing all day but wait for unsuspecting posters to say something they can pounce upon."

I wonder if that's what happened at ampage. There doesn't seem to be near as much acitivity there compared to a few years ago when I was a frequent visitor there. That was around the same time as 9/11, though. I think people needed an outlet.

[Lurco]

Just for the record the nickname is a running gag amoungst some of my clients. Its purely a joke and not to be taken too seriously just like me.

Hi Andrew: thank you for that explanation!
Needed that.

Now I can go to my recordstore tomorrow
(for the younger ones: = CD-store),
and talk to my friend, the owner, who happpens to have the nickname "record-pope" (there are reasons for that, too!),
as if nothing would have happened. LOL :lol:

[Zero the hero]

As you noticed, I've never posted anything in the topics about ethics and something similar.
We write from different parts of the world and anyone has got his own definition of ethics.
Ethics doesn't exist, well, it's like talking about politics or soccer: anyone has got his different opinion and many people stuggle a lot to defend his own ideas.
About 5 years ago, I've ruined many good friendship because of politics. I had great struggles for this and I've seen that all these struggles are not productive: I kept on my ideas and no-one could change it! In many other forums I've seen plays like this, and I felt very bad when I've seen stuff like this in this forum too, so I didn't want to put gas on fire, there's much more to lose that to win when struggling for that.
Sorry, I'm tired, and it seems that I've forgotten how to write in English correctly: I really have to go to bed.
This forum is like a white spot in the darkness of the net and amongst the rudeness of the net users, I hope to dedicate much more time on electronics and in helping people who want to begin their adeventures in this world rather then having verbal fights for useless things.
I really hope to share my knowlege with everyone willing to learn, that's all I can (and I WANT) do in this forum.
Zero (Alex).

[Mike Burgundy]

I wonder if that's what happened at ampage. There doesn't seem to be near as much acitivity there compared to a few years ago when I was a frequent visitor there. That was around the same time as 9/11, though. I think people needed an outlet.

Spot on, on all counts.
Please, to all, let's keep this place the way it is. All of a refuge, source of learning, inspiration, all the way through to, yes, an outlet.
This is the most human (think about that one) place on the net I've encountered.

[Paul Marossy]

That's too bad about ampage, Mike.  
I agree with you on all that you say.

Viva DIYstompboxes.com!

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

There is only one way to prevent the 'flamewar' mentality overwhelming a board, and that is the removal of the offending posts as soon as possible. The same way you can stop graffiti recurring by washing it off before morning. It is a hard & difficult job being a moderator, but it is not a thankless one, because..THANKS, Peter & Aron  :wink:
BTW I have no objection whatever if any of my posts are deleted on grounds of irrelevance or taste

[brett]

Hi.  Just my 2c worth, but I don't like the idea of censoring stuff on the forum (or anywhere).  I think that Peter and Aron do an excellent job with moderation by honouring the principles of respect and reasonableness.  

As long as we, the vast majority of forum users, continue to treat each other in a reasonable way, those rare obnoxious contributions are marginalised and seen for what they are.  It's great to have a forum that stays on-topic and productive, and where 99.9% of off-topic stuff is interesting or humorous.  Pretty amazing, especially given the multicultural, multi-ethnic, mixed political landscape that the forum works across.

   

[The Tone God]

I don't think the answer is deleting posts in fact that could cause more problems. The more open things are the better off we are as a community. Instead we should be bigger then to let ourselves get sucked into such silliness.

All these posts about ethics generally become long and pointless because like opinions ethics are made on an indivdual basis. We are all different so each of us will have a different set of ethics. Trying to get a consensus on ethics is going to be all but impossible just like trying to get a consensus on opinion. In the end it is up to us to follow the ethics we set for ourselves. It is one of the messuring sticks of a person's character.

One observation I would like to make as a long time netizen and mod/admin on other boards is that besides basic poster etiquette that is to be expected there is also moderator etiquette. I don't have a problem with troublesome threads being taken care of but a message should be tagged on the end of the thread by the acting moderator as to why a thread has been modified. It would keep the guessing/conspirency factor down and people from thinking there are arbitrary decisions being made.

Once again I'm not complaining about any of the mod or admin work as its has been good IMHO.

Andrew

[Peter Snowberg]

I've been involved with running BBSs since 1983 and this is BY FAR the most amazing forum I have seen in terms of how helpful and civil people are without the classic flame wars.

It's quite remarkable to me.

When most forums are a fraction of the size of this one, they start to attract "trolls" and "rodents" and it all disintegrates very quickly. Luckily this is not the case here for some reason. I think volume has much to do with the type of interaction that occurs on a forum and that the narrowness of the subject material here must have something to do with the success.

In reality there is almost NO moderation here and even less censorship. When things get out of control, the thread just gets moved into the archives in order to lock it and get it out of the "mainstream" of the posts. In my experience this sort of administration is almost unheard of. Most forums rely on quickly deleting messages that cause any emotional outpouring. Here, I only know of a few posts that have been removed.

Aron and I are both very against censorship. I sure hope that this place can continue from a very long time without needing the moderation that is so common elsewhere. The more open we can remain, I feel the better off everybody will be.

I would like to thank everybody for all of their civility here. I am grateful to be associated with such a group of people (now over 1200 of us! )

Thank you everybody!

Peace,
-Peter

[Boofhead]

I think there's a big difference between having a disagreement and saying something to make a point, and, saying something to deliberately flame someone for flame's sake.   That's the difference between the adult game and the kids game.

It would be a crappy world if everybody was forced to agree, slap each other  on the back and smile.