OT - Good bass guitar cabinets?

[FatMike]

Hi,

can anyone recommend a cheap but decent cabinet for bass guitar? I'm looking for one to buy. Should not be over 500-600$ though.

Hartke and Peavy's cabinets seem to be the cheapest to get. However, the frequency response of those Hartke VX boxes (non-aluminium) is not that great (well, maybe there isn't much to expect from a 400$ cabinet). Has anyone ever played one of these Hartke aluminium-cone cabinets? And what about Peavy and other brands?

Until now I'm playing through a Sound City 120 tube head (a Hiwatt copy which I suppose to be rather for guitar than bass) and a Sound City 4x12 cabinet, so I don't know much about bass cabinets  . Maybe you've got some ideas  

I also thought about building one myself, but that's not as easy as building a guitar cabinet if you want to get good results (an enough lower frequencies). Has anyone ever tried this?



Fat Mike

[Nasse]

What I believe if you are on budget it might be cheaper to buy a good speaker element and do the woodworking yourself.

[petemoore]

There's Tons of stuff to you could lug around for Bass amplification / loudspeaker reproduction.
 Scoops are cool...the seashell spiral horn cabs...like building an airplane except wayy heavier per volume.
 Reflex cabs of all types do their job for the most part...as long as they are huge enough to sort of accurately reproduce the lowest frequency waveforms that will be pushed into them, and takes alot of power.
 These take more materials. so generally weigh more and will appear less loud per watt compared to a front loader.
 For yer basic Bass setup, front loaded 10'' or 12'' 4x12cabs make great sense. The projection, frequency response,  and amount of punch per volume/weight is unrivaled...plus I like the tight sound a generall thickness of them. Adding another 4x12 further increases the lower note dynamics.
 Many ppl use a front loaded 18 or 15 speaker, IMO if it's the right one maybe, I still like the 4x12 cabs for the tight unmuddied bass response...all of this is what what and what not with all the need's different amps styles etc.
 For ease of setup, getting the most from an amp, power handling and projection these 4 speaker [10's and 12's] are hard to beat.
 According to the JBL manual 10'' speakers have improved bass accuracy to the 15's...of course 15's are power honkerz and cost less to satisfy power situations. Very popular among marketteers...if you can sell a one speaker cabinet for near the price of a four speaker one...
 These modern 15's and 18's may superced the above rantings which illude to the fact that 10's and 12's just sound better for Bass, Guitar, Vocals, Keyboards, until you start getting to very low frequencies and intend to produce the visceral 'bass jackhammer' effect that shakes everything in and the venue [which can be cool, and rare, having everything else in pplace first is highly recommended]. I heard an 18'' speaker recently that was actually bright and crisp so go figure...
 I just swear by the 4x12's, and urge that they be tried in place of 'that' 15 ...you know the one, the one on the stand in the bar that 'honks' in your ear all night...about the same thing as playing guitar through different speakers...don't let these factory jobs fool you there either...there ARE better drivers and amps to be had than what I see Ppl using for bar gigs all the time....put something nice on the vocals once and see what you think. 4x12's {>Generally<] sound much richer IMO than 1x15''.

[FatMike]

What I believe if you are on budget it might be cheaper to buy a good speaker element and do the woodworking yourself.

Yeah, it might be cheaper to buy four good 10'' speakers and then build an enclosure, but I think that it's a bit more than just some woodworking. You have to tune everything right in order to get decent low frequencies (for expample bass reflex). Don't know whether this would be so easy.

I didn't want to buy a 15'' or 18'' cab as many 4x10'' also start at 30Hz frequency response. But 4x10'' cabs have a higher upper frequency limit. I also played some combos (Laney) which had a 15'' speaker in them and I don't liked that sound too much, so I thought (and read) that 10'' speaker might be better in some cases.

Well, if anyone could name some cabinets that are worth to look at I'd be glad  

[downweverything]

i usually use 12" speakers for bass and it works really good for me... why dont you try to find a sound city bass cab... what ive heard played through those sound really good, they are kind of big though...  i like those amps... i use an swr 2x12 with a 2" horn has all the punch of the 10s with i bit more grind on the really lows.

[travissk]

I've never bought a cab, but I have heard good things about Avatar Speakers; they seem to provide good value for the money. The only problem is that their bass cabs seem to come in under your price range, so you'd have room for a little more quality if you're really wanting to spend $500-600.

http://www.avatarspeakers.com

I would get some info from people that have ordered from them before ordering however, because I've just read reviews and opinions myself

Another option is to order one of their cabs without speakers for ~$180 shipped (4x10 bass version), then fill it with your favorite speakers to taste.

[Basonsubatomia]

Depends on the kind of music you're after... I'm an Ampeg 8x10 man myself (and I play through an old V4 head - also a tube guitar head, but still kills on the bass). I got my cab for $500 canadian - typical prices around here for a used one in off-cosmetic shape are between $700-$800... but that's canadian. Mine has a new flat black grille cloth (good stuff though), no Ampeg logo, the Tolex is torn off 2/3rds of one side, and when I bought it one of the wheels was almost split open... that went a few months later; ordered a new one for a few bucks, and I was good to go. One thing... they're HEAVY. 160 lbs or so, and the size of a small fridge. Can't beat the sound though.

edit: check the Talkbass Amp Forums.

[Boofhead]

You have to tune everything right in order to get decent low frequencies (for expample bass reflex). Don't know whether this would be so easy.

There's information and free software on the internet to do this.  It's not hard to get good results after you play around with the software. This is under the proviso you understand the terms properly.

When you look at so call "pro quality" cabinets there's a lot of variation between designs - mainly because of the various trade-offs. A good start is to  tune between 32Hz for 5 string basses or 40Hz for four string basses.

Tuning only affects the very low end, the tone comes from the driver itself.  If you want a tweeter you will need a crossover and this is where some knowledge is required, but again, the crossovers on pro cabinets are fairly crude and you couldn't do much worse.

[FatMike]

OK, maybe it's not a bad idea to think about building a cab (I know someone who definitely has the knowledge that is needed... he could help me ).
But which speakers are good to use?

[claydavis]

i think the hartke aluminum drivers are an acquired taste, and would probably make a wretched match with your sound city. i'm not a fan of the newer peavey stuff, but the older 2x15 cabs aren't bad.

the fender-reissue-now-discontinued-again sunn 4x10 cabinets are great (growly, but can rumble, too), and are usually around $300 US or so used. if you don't mind the backbreaking weight and special transportation considerations, you can also score a used ampeg 810 for $500-600 US. i'm currently using an ampeg svt1540 (4x10 + 1x15 in one cab) that i got for $600 used, and i couldn't be happier.

if you build your own cab, eminence 10" speakers are great, and the carvin 15" are surprisingly good. you may also want to consider rehabilitating an old junk speaker cab. that's usually much easier and cheaper than building your own.

[Nasse]

If I were to buy a speaker element, I would take a such element whose Thiele-Small parameters are known and available. Most manufacturers and importers have such data. But not all small shops have it available, or it is not complete.

Maybe a closed box is not so tolerant for element parameters. If you do a bass reflex cab youll need element parameters. Some manufacturers and places that sell speakers have cabinet plans and recommendations. I had a Monacor catalog few years ago, and there was huge list of instrument PA and hifi speakers with recommendations for cabinet size, reflex tuning freq and so on. And there are books written about topic.

In the good old days they used to generalise things and it was claimed that two or more cheap elements was better than one more expensive "good" one.

[petemoore]

Getting tight joints and everything right is the hard part ...
 Getting the cab tuned .... just use 'regular' 4x12 cab dimensions except make it 15 inches deep...
  If you're using wood and trying to get it to resonate like the old 1/2'' / 13 ply jensen cabs we had that's another story.
 Most of thses 4x12's cabs work just find as long as they dont rattle.
 You can add insulation to damp bass resonance.
 Commercial ones come in two types...those that resonate similar to bricks and those made like old Marshall Cabinets, there is a difference in these two type of cabinets, weve had n/p's making 4x12's using 1/2'' plywood for the sides, reinforced 3/4'' front, and 3/4'' back, dadoeing the front soundboard in is nice, but i've done it with just added strips on the inside and outside to glue and screw to.
 So you can hear some difference with 4x12 cabinet build types, I like the solid ones just great, Maybe even better for bass response having a little extra weight.
 Don't see this so much, I like the oversized soundboard designs of the old Fender 2x12 [the ones that can be made 4x12] cabinets and the Oversized Marshall cabinets.
 We used to read about and build cabinets using old technology Books [I think sound waves still travel in a fashion that make old speaker design books worth reading], going oversize has definite sound advantages, and obvious disadvantages.
 The depth of the cab really can bring in the 'whalllomp', I like cabinets with Wide faces, less common these days...there are alot of sub-mini and compact cabinets being sold and used still.
 Ampeg gets the high marks with the 8x10 SVT cabinet, Hartke is very similar if you stack two of them...both these are made from non resonant/heavy board or particle board. 8x10's are just harder to move.

[smoguzbenjamin]

Now we're talking about cabs, I read somewhere that if you make an open-back cab the dimensions don't really matter. Is this true? Or is it a load of crap?

[petemoore]

Open Back is a whole different horse.
 It makes less difference for sure than closed back.
 Take yer raw speaker and hook it onto a board...soem differencein bass should probably be noticed.
 put it in an open back..evev more bass...
 use an enclosure and the bass really starts to get going, but because of the air/spring [the differences in inside air pressures to outside pressures] it's a whole new set of physics involved, especially in the lower frequencie register..
 I figure open back is somewhere between raw speaker and enclosure.
 Open back lets the drummer get cues right off the back of the guitar amp, [quite a feature for basic setups] at the expense of front projection and a certain type of bass response / definition [that I like].
 The differences of these two cabinet types is much more pronounced at medium and greater volume levels.

[smoguzbenjamin]

So an open-back cab would be OK without worrying too much about sound. OK I'll give it a shot. Would padding help increase bass response in an open-back?

[MarkB]

been a while since I've heard em.. but the Genz-Benz stuff used to be good sounding and reasonably priced.
"-)

[Mike Burgundy]

Damping doesn't really do anything in a real open backed cab (if the opening is really small, it starts to act like a reflex enclosure with infintesmally short port) except lower output.
The speaker resonates practically as if it's mounted in a never-ending baffle. Putting dampening material behind it will eat up decibels, but won't alter the systems resonance.

[gtrmac]

Here's something you can have fun with:

http://www.kbapps.com/audio/speakerdesign/calculators/Default.htm

I plugged in some specs from the Eminence website and it gave me a set of cabinet dimensions.

I'm thinking about putting together a bass amp for my studio so I'll be using this or something like it to draw up a cabinet design.

[Adam Shame]

I have to second Avatar speakers... A guy in my old band had a 4x10 and it sounded great with his old Acoustic head.  He was so impressed that he bought another 4x10 a day later.  I think you could probably get 2 4x10 for your price range.

[Boofhead]

Don't use open back cabinets for bass - the driver stress is greatly increased and the bass reponse is greatly reduced.  A bad choice for bass.