OT: Please please read!!!!! EMU 1820M!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bluesgeetar]

OK.  I wanted to share this with the other few music writers on here.  I know alot of the folks here are electroheads and could care less and most guys here would rather be designing the next super circuit to knock ZVEX and other pedal masters of the throne.  But there are a few aspiring musicians that hang here.  This is for you.  EMU has a new product out that seems to be kicking major ass.  I first just wrote it off as another sound card break out box combo.  But reviews on all the recording forums are showing this thing to be awsome!  Well as with anything most guys will pump up something cause they dropped the dough on it and will refuse to admit that it sucks cause they don't wanna look like an ass.  I found one thread about the EMU 1820M that signed sealed and delivered the sale of one of these to me.  Below is a post from a young man in UK off a forum and he gives a song he did using the EMU 1820M!  Unbelievable!!!  I have very few store bought CDs of major bands that sound this nice!  Come Monday morning I'm heading down to Guitar Center to buy me a EMU 1820M!!!  If the link for his song Skin doesn't pop up on my post use the cut and paste of the link below.  I know some of use want to get into PC recording.  I know Ammscray has emailed for advice on this.  

A post from Jamie Bowen:
"Before I bought my 1820 I would have liked to have heard something recorded using it. So incase anyone else out there is the same, here's a track build with the 1820M;

Skin - 4.5Mb. Sorry about the windows format, the MP3 was huge, I don't have a heap of MP3 generators but will see if I can produce a reasonable sized MP3 version soon.

It uses the onboard DSP reverb. No compression. Sorry about the singing....

It was recorded at 24/48 and mastered using Grungelizer to add a bit of background noise as it sounded TOO clean! I then converted to 16/44.1 in wavelab lite, then a .wma produced using Creative Play Centre"

"I used a Audio Technica 3035 mic and a focusrite trackmaster to plug it into. I used not EQ or compression on the focusrite, because I want to try and do a comparison with the 1820M's preamps to see how they compare. I haven't got round to that yet.

The guitar is a Lowden O25 which is just a lovely instrument. I didn't have a spare mic to record it with though, so just plugged it into one of the 1820M's preamp inputs. I have a LR baggs dual system fitted to it, which combines the piezo and an onboard microphone signal. Not too bad a sound though eh?"
http://www.jamiebowen.co.uk/Sounds/SkinAcoustic04_03_27_16-44.wma


OK here is some extra info for you.  Song done on PC using Cubase.  What is Grungelizer?  A plugin from Steinberg included with cubase that dirtys up a mix or track.  Give it an old vinyl sound.
Audio Technica 3035 mic:  $199 at zzounds (great reviews)
focusrite trackmaster: under $500
LR baggs dual system:  I don't know.  I use a Fishman setup that uses a blend of magnetic sound hole PUP with onboard mic on a small gooseneck.
PC
Onboard DSP reverb that comes with the EMU 1820M

I hope this helps someone here on there quest for a decent home studio and sound.  I was floored by the quality!  Very nice for what little he is using.  The EMU 1820M has the same AD/DA converters as the Digidesign HD system, Digis flagship converters!

[aron]

It looks good. As you may know Emu is owned by Creative Labs so maybe some of the Creative side is coming into Emu now.

I have some pretty good memories when I used to visit Emu in Scotts Valley  

Aron

[Bluesgeetar]

Did you listen to that clip?  My main point was how much organic musicalness was in the sound.  I have tried many many cards and demos at GC.  I had a Layla and a Gina, demo a Terratec.  Tried an RME, Demo an Ardvark, Tried a Apogee(nice but pricey)  and the one thing lacking in most is a musical quality sucked out during the AD conversion.  The Agogee sounded nice but it is a hell of alot more expensive than the Emu 1820M at $399-$499.  If you listened to that song skin you'll notice how much musicalness is in the sound quality.  I liken it to listening to my Beatles stuff on CD.  The main and most important thing I like when listening to the Beatles is how alive and utterly saturated musically and colored the sound is.  I have quested for this sound in the digital realm.  For the money you can't go wrong with that little setup that that Jamie guy is using.  Oh you can spend lot's lot's more but only get the same sound and the right to say I use Protools with Apogee converters.  Whatever!!!  When listening to that song I realized that we finally have arrived at professional quality sound at poor musician prices.  It took long enough but it has arrived.  I mean I've listened to super mixes on newer bands signed with major labels and the music just sounds dead!  No life to it at all.  No organic coloring to the music.  Most of it sounds like background noise.  This was done in multimillion dollar studios!!!!!  And it didn't sound nearly as good as the sound quality on that skin song.  I mean he did need a wind/pop screen and a deesser and a little more eq and compression/limiting on that voice.  If he would have bought a focusrite Voice master he would have been better off.  I use a voicemaster and it does everything you need and it sound awsome for other stuff.  But at the price of the Focusrite platinum series why not buy both!?  Cheap!

Creative owning EMU doesn't mean EMU is going to suck.  Pinnacle owns Steinberg but Steiny has not went to crap.  Pinnacle ain't that great either.  Apple owns Logic and Logic has gone to crap.  I think Apple just wanted that code for it's music sales stuff.  Excellent customer support at Emu from what I have been hearing on the Emu 1820M.  No one has complained of support problems so it is obvious that Creative is not involved.  Creative support is crap from what I hear.

Also and very important!!!  Even though it is a new product no one seems to have driver issues but a small few.  I would say that about 98% of what I have been reading on recording forums is that no one is having driver issues.  This is so very very important.  A very nice selling point!  The product is in it's infancy with no driver problems!?  It is truly a miracle.

[MarkB]

Certainly helps to have the right tools to begin with!
Ever played a Lowden?  REEEEAAALLY nice guitars.
The 3035 is a good budget mic, and the Focusrite is, well.. a focusrite (even if it's their 'budget' line.. it's still a focusrite)

The real question with the EMU is the latency and the quality of the ASIO drivers (which Creative has not done so well on in the past).
I'm using an M-Audio Delta1010/1010AI for my input.. where I can either use the 1010 for AD/DA conversion - or using the AI interface, use my 01V mixer for AD/DA conversion.. it's a nice setup - and M-Audio drivers and support are great.

I'd like to hear/use one of these.. we need more good interfaces.  Currently the M-Audio stuff is great, the RME stuff is really great and the Echo stuff is pretty darn good... other than those, it drops off pretty sharply.  (I'm not including the Digidesign stuff, since those aren't native units).
"-)

[Bluesgeetar]

Know anything about Emu?  Emu was building studio stuff before Creative bought it.  Also Creative bought Emu not took over it's R&D.  I've been through all the online forums on this subject and your way wrong.  People are frustrated as hell with M-audio stuff.  You must be one of the lucky ones.  Pinnacle took over Steiny but Pinnacle is playing it hands off.  Creative is doing the same, Avid has always done it with Digidesign.  Again as with anything do your research before pass judgement.  The Emu 1820M is burning up the boards on the recording forums.  Must be pretty good.  Also Crysler bought Lambroghini and so on and so one.  I don't think a bigger company buying a smaller company hurts it always.  Apple bought Logic and now Logic is well pretty much dead in the water.  Sony bought sonic foundry but SF is still going strong and getting better.  Any way I don't have to defend Emu products cause the proof is in the pudding and everyone is loving the hell out of their 1820M setups!  Great reviews!  Creative is the financial backing for Emu now.
Alesis bought GT!  GT has actually gotten better.  M-Audio is good for the beginner or someone not needing superb quality sound and just needing a toy to play with.  The debate over Creative taking over Emu is hot on the recording forums also and the folks who are buying the Emu sound card systems are just not buying the BS about Creative ruining Emu cause the drivers are stable and the product kicks major ass and everyone is getting plenty of support from Emu.  It's always the same and it burns me up.  Mac verses PC, AMD verses Intel, ASUS verses Nvidia, Fender verses Gibson,  Vintage trannys verses new ones, M-Audio cards verses everyone else.  The proof is there in the recording and the proof is in the reviews and feedback from people actually using the products.   Couple of guys even says it sounds better than their RME card.  

[MarkB]

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with EMU.. those guys have been putting out amazing products for years.. but my question was on their DRIVERS (which they've done little of in the past).

As for your comment re: M-Audio.. I have MANY friends and colleagues using their equipment with spectacular results... it is by no means a beginners toy.  My rig is 10 in/12 out analog, plus SPDIF in and out, as well as lightpipe optical in and out.. the analog converters are 24/96, very high quality.. and even on my crappy desktop, I can get spectacularly low latency with their drivers.

I guess I haven't run into support issues with M-Audio because my stuff has always worked.  My friend did have a breakout box go bad recently - they RMA'ed it and it was fixed and back to him in less than 2 weeks.   Can't complain about that.
"-)

[drew]

Can I be honest here and say that this sample doesn't sound good because of the emu box? It's a nice guitar recorded with an AT3035, which is a nice mic (that I use on acoustic guitars), going thru a focusrite trackmaster. Use a nice guitar, mic, and preamp straight into a computer's built-in soundcard and it'll sound nice. If you know how to mic it.... and no sound card is gonna tell you how to do that.


drew
www.toothpastefordinner.com

[Bluesgeetar]

Can I be honest here and say that some of the most amazing songs have been recorded on what is considered crappy guitars!  Man the amount of brainwashinng here is amazing.  Am I'm I the only one that knows anything about recording here.  On mic alot of crappy guitars can blow away a 2 or 3 grand high end guitar (acoustics mind you).  With electrics you pretty much get what you pay for but only with the electronics.  Cheaper better made electrics have clearly been coming out of Japan and Korea for years and still do but their electronics suck.  I don't want to burst the M-Audio crowds bubble but I think Emu is about to stomp M-Audio.  I can't say how bad.  As I know the M version is the only one with Digi converters so maybe that is the only real competition for M-Audio.  No one is having driver problems and the product just came out.  This is a small miracle.  But M-Audio is still the best way to go for the money though.  But if one was to have $499 to drop I sure as hell would go with the Emu.  You all are going to shit when an announcement comes out "Creative Labs to acquire Avid Technologies"  I find it curious that Emu is using Digi converters.  As far as I know Digis converters are proprietery and unique to the company.  Designed by them.  I mean Emu is in SoCal and Digi is in SoCal Avid is SoCal and Creatives main hub in US is in SoCal. So something was bound to happen between all these guys.  But it's all guesstimation.  I'm retiring my Echo gear and getting a Emu 1820M.  I was once about to break down and get M-Audios top of the line product  but I read to many varying complaints about M-Audio.

[drew]

If you have a recording chain, and you want to improve it, you have to do it at the weakest point, and the weakest point is not going to be the converters until you have a good player using a good guitar, a good mic, and a good pre. (optional: a good compressor.) Just stating the obvious here... if you use a shitty mic, shitty pre, and you get nicer converters, it's still gonna sound bad.

"Shitty" of course meaning "wrong for the application" and the other obvious point is that if you're playing a great song you're nine-tenths of the way to making a great recording.

drew
www.toothpastefordinner.com

[bwanasonic]

Am I'm I the only one that knows anything about recording here.  

Wait, let me check. Uhh, no.

:roll:

Kerry M

[David]

Am I the only one that knows anything about recording here?

No, you most certainly are not!

[ErikMiller]

Nice sounding tune.

It shows that it is possible to get a good sound with that product, but as others have pointed out, it's just one piece of gear in the chain. The chain starts with a guy who can sing, play, and has a good pair of ears.

This is the next thing I'm getting for my home studio:

http://produceren.terratec.net/product.php?pid=1

[aron]

Apple owns Logic and Logic has gone to crap. I think Apple just wanted that code for it's music sales stuff. Excellent customer support at Emu from what I have been hearing on the Emu 1820M. No one has complained of support problems so it is obvious that Creative is not involved. Creative support is crap from what I hear.

I have and use Logic and it has not gone to crap. The plug-ins are some of the best ever made. Finally there are many improvements to the program.

I have no doubt that the EMU stuff is excellent; I know some of the people there.

I also know some of the Emagic people and the core audio people (OS X)  too and one thing I know is that they care deeply about their work.

I know many professionals using the m-audio hardware and I know from personal experience that it does work fine. I have no doubt the EMU system is great but like any other system that just gets released, it will have its share of bugs to work out.

People should use whatever works for them. If you like it and think it's the greatest thing, then great! Vote with your dollars!

There are lots of cool devices, no reason why people can't use different tools to achieve the desired results.

[MarkB]

aron - I'm sure that by 'going to crap' he meant 'no more development for anything other than Apple'..  

"-)

[aron]

aron - I'm sure that by 'going to crap' he meant 'no more development for anything other than Apple'..  

"-)

oh yeah..... If that's what he meant, then yeah, it's crappy alright!

Logic 5.5 is pretty darn powerful on the PC though.

[Bluesgeetar]

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