OT: to anyone with knowledge of OLD computers, help needed!

[smoguzbenjamin]

Hey all,

I am getting this old computer back up and running, after fixing all the memory errors etc etc and finding out that the old monitor I scavenged was broken :evil: it gives me a "keyboard error or no keyboard present. Press F1 to continue." error. Now looking at the back I see a PS/2 port (which my current keyboard is in) and a large 5-pin DIN plug. I'm using a serial mouse for this one. Now my guess is, the PC expects the keyboard in the DIN plug. But I'm not sure and before I spend money and energy trying to track a DIN-keyboard down, I want to know for sure. What exactly is going wrong here? I also think it's funny that the "Numlock Scrlock Capslock" buttons all light up for half a second when I fire up the machine....

Suggestions? :?

[ErikMiller]

There are adapters to take a PS/2 keyboard to a DIN motherboard and vice-versa.

[David]

The keyboard indicators flash because the CPU does a self-test when you first turn it on.  Your guess about having to connect the keyboard where you currently have the mouse is pretty good.  Did you look at the keyboard to see if there's a mouse connector on it?  Unfortunately, you may have a problem that I found out about by bitter experience.  This keyboard error is an indicator on PS/2 systems that you have a serious problem with your motherboard.  In my case, I lucked out because I was given a motherboard to replace the one that went bad.

[smoguzbenjamin]

It's not a PS-2 it's a 'normal' motherboard with a P100 installed. I'll check out those adapters, thanks Erik. If it doesn't work, fine I got it for free anyway :mrgreen: It would only completely rule if I got the darn thing running.

[Paul Marossy]

What OS are we talking about?  Windows? DOS?
The motherboard could be bad, or someone set a driver incorrectly in the Device Manager (assuming the OS is Windows ____) and it won't recognize the keyboard, because the drivers are wrong. If this is the case, no matter where you plug it in, the computer won't recognize it.

I just had this happen to me w/ a computer that someone gave me. It has WinXP on it, and it did something wrong when trying to get better Logitech mouse drivers which also tie into the keyboard somehow. Anyhow, the computer would start up normally, but I had a non-functional mouse and keyboard when it was done starting up. I couldn't even get into Windows Safe Mode, only the BIOS. I had to reformat the drive and reinstall all of the software to get it working again! It sucked. It took like 9 hours to get back to where I was before I screwed it up.

Have you snooped around in the BIOS? Maybe there is something in there you could try to switch. It could very well be a bad motherboard, too. I'm just giving you some other ideas to think about...

[Samuel]

Well it probably won't be a driver problem, as any installed drivers will only appear to the machine after the OS is loaded. It sounds as though the BIOS is not seeing the keyboard. I doubt it will be a huge expenditure to either find an old style keyboard in a thrift shop or to get a PS/2 -> DIN adapter, which will more than likely solve the problem. I'm betting the other PS/2 port is strictly for the mouse.

[Leema]

Yo dude - I got some of those adapters laying around.

U can have one but only if u r in the UK.

Mail me ur addy and i'll stick one in the snail mail.

[Leema]

Oh - i just noticed u r in NL !!!

Well if u pay the postage i'll send u one  

[smoguzbenjamin]

Heh, I haven't even smelled the OS yet :mrgreen:

Now I'm REALLY confused. It had 4 x 4MB SIMMs in its 2 memory banks, and I swapped them for 8MB SIMMs I had lying about. It kept beeping - memory error. So I swapped the 4MB's back, it gets to the "can't find keyboard thing". Now I tried one set of 4MBs and one set of 8MBs - a total of 24MB. It works :? It seems to want a pair of 4MB SIMMS's in bank 0, and it doesn't care about bank 1. Wierd. It has a DIMM slot though, I could get a what, 64, 128M card fo that 2nd hand.... It also has USB on the motherboard.... Pretty good for an ancient machine.

And I checked the silkscreening, the DINplug has PS2_KB stamped next to it. The PS/2 port has 'Mouse'. So I guess that solves that problem. But the memory thing is wierd....

[Peter Snow]

Some of those older PC's had different slots for different memory chip configurations.  The best thing would be to check the manufacturer's web site for documentation (ASUS?).  Many of them have  documentation for obsolete MBs still available online.  That should tell you which slots are valid for which memory types.  

I got burned with the same problem years ago with an old 486.  I just stuck the memory modules in 2 adjacent slots (1 & 2), only to find out from reading the manual that I needed to put then in alternating slots (1 & 3).  

As you also found out, it is/was possible to mix and match module types (4Mb, 8Mb, etc) but you had to watch which slots you put them in.

[Peter Snowberg]

I remember something about the keyboards being different between XT and AT style interfaces, yet both still used a DIN-5 connector. I used to have a couple of keyboards that had dip switches on the bottom for setting one format or the other. In the early days of clones it was a toss up as to which interface the machine had. The keyboard interface is done with a wanky programmable I/O controller that was like a stripped down microcontroller called the 8042. What a "chip" :roll:. As the pre-pentium (pentigram, pathetium) boards were often made with off-the-shelf or less than semi-custom chips, the keyboard controllers were often a generation behind the rest of the motherboard.

On the memory, there have been several generations of technology that have come and gone. I assume they're not 30 pin SIMMs? So now are they fast page mode or EDO style or neither? Hmmm....

Good luck with it!

take care,
-Peter

[Samuel]

One of you guys has to change your name. Legally. I'm serious. Enough funny business.

[Peter Snowberg]

LOL!

I get a kick out of it, but you'll notice we are in different countries. Isn't that enough? I'll bet we look pretty different too.

Hey Peter, are you Scandinavian by chance?

Take care,
-Peter

[Paul Marossy]

All I know is that it seems that things were easier in the DOS days. Windows makes things convoluted with all these digitally signed drivers and all this stuff. It is cool to have a plug and play system, but it sure can be hard to troubleshoot things sometimes. Not to mention stuff changes so fast these days. What is "standard" today changes tomorrow with the "new, gotta have technology".

Damn that Bill Gates and his Microsoft! Don't get me wrong, I like Windows, but being a dinosaur from the heyday of DOS, I can't help but feel like Mr. Gates is being my mommy who is always looking over my shoulder and not trusting that I actually know how to maintain my own computer...

But, anyway, it really is quite amazing what advances have been made in computers in the last 10-15 years! I can remember when I had a 300mHz (?) 386 with a 100 meg hard drive, and that was considered the bomb. I have seen a lot of things come out since I was a teenager - CDs, the PC, cell phones, etc., etc.

[Samuel]

LOL!

I get a kick out of it, but you'll notice we are in different countries. Isn't that enough? I'll bet we look pretty different too.

It's a global economy now! Get with the times! From now on your username will be NuclearDude741.

[Samuel]

All I know is that it seems that things were easier in the DOS days. Windows makes things convoluted with all these digitally signed drivers and all this stuff. It is cool to have a plug and play system, but it sure can be hard to troubleshoot things sometimes.

I see where you're coming from, but I also haven't had to open up a machine to switch an IRQ jumper in a long time, either...

[TheBigMan]

Windows/DOS etc isn't the issue here, it's the BIOS.  Old BIOS chips need to see matched SIMMs in each bank generally.  E.g. if it supports both EDO and fast page RAM then each bank will have to match, both EDO or both FP.

If the adapter doesn't solve the keyboard issue then there are usually loads of old keyboards going for buttons on eBay.  The real problem is if you fry the PSU, because the one thing I've never had any luck finding is pre ATX power supplies.

[Hal]

paul - 30 Mhz 386 ?  Gotta be.  They didn't even come close to 300!  I have my 12 Mhz 368 in my closet still :-D

Ben - just to make light of your situation, I love how the BIOS says "keyboard error...press F1 to continue"  The irony is genius.  I bet the guy who came up with that was some sort of sadist.

any-how...if you run, who cares?  check your bios if you can disable the test....but i dont' think i understood your problem.  I know you get the error, but does the keyboard work?
and if not...i hate to bring it up, but check for the obvious.  Bent pins, dust, bad connections, etc.

[Peter Snow]

Sorry to be slow on replying but I had to duck out for a coupla hours to take the family out to supper.  Some kinda rebellion in the ranks

Peter is in California and I am in Ottawa, Canada.  But if the confusion is too much for you you can call me by the name my wife calls me - Stupid!

We *may* look alike - you never know?  Separated at birth maybe?  :roll:

Peter Snow-No-Berg

[Paul Marossy]

"I see where you're coming from, but I also haven't had to open up a machine to switch an IRQ jumper in a long time, either..."

Oh yeah... I remember doing that. I kind of forgot about that, it's been years. I remember reading somewhere about IRQ conflicts in Windows, but I have yet to experience this. Maybe I have't tried to put enough hardware on my computer(s) to get a conflict?

On another note, maybe I was thinking a 386 33mHz? That seems to sound right to me. Now we are talking about 1 and 2Ghz machines! It really is amazing how stuff has advanced. Heck, I can remember trying to draw 3D objects on an 8088. I could go and take a 10 minute break when I told AutoCAD to hide the 3D object while I was waiting for it to regenerate...