Highway 89 Build Report

[Paul Marossy]

I built the Highway 89 earlier this week per runoffgroove's perfboard layout (No PCB? I did it again!?) and it worked great the first time I "fired it up". It's a nice sounding circuit.  

Now I just have to box it up. I'm going to add a soundclip of it to my soundclips page in the next day or two.

Thanks to Doug Hammond for another great sounding circuit! Viva Doug!  :wink:

[PB Wilson]

I was also working on my own Highway 89 this past week. Thanks RunoffGroove for the layout! I hope to get it all the pots wired up in the next few days. Anyone want to share their thoughts on Doug's excellent-sounding pedal?

[Doug H]

Glad you are enjoying it, Paul.

It sounds a little thin on an amp I just built. I'm thinking of re-vamping it, but not any time soon.

Doug

[Paul Marossy]

Doug-

Oh, so you built another amp? I thought I read somewhere that you were going to try out a new idea... How did it work out?

I haven't tried out the Highway 89 with an amplifier yet, but I'm sure it will sound good.    I think a lot of it depends on what guitar you are using and what kind of pickups you have in it. It's hard to design something that sounds good with any kind of guitar/amp combination, IMO. I have to round up a Hammond 1590BB enclosure before I can really doe any extensive testing with mine...

[Doug H]

Doug-

Oh, so you built another amp?

Here's a quick looksie:

http://dh.gopages.net/OF.htm

I'm doing the woodworking for the head cabinet right now. I did a photo-essay of the build this time. I will put that up along with schem, clips, blah blah blah... when I'm finished.





Doug

[Paul Marossy]

Very cool! Where do you get those modem enclosures from? They make such a good amp chassis, and you sure as heck can't beat the price!

[Chico]

Doug,
Your comment above is interesting (about the HW89 being thin sounding on your new amp).  I built the HW89 per my own layout and it is one of my favorite pedals.  However,

On my Fender Twin, this pedal is hands down a monster.  It sounds full and defined.

On my Reverend Hellhound, it sounds thin and piecing, sort of like a cranked treble booster.  I cannot explain it, but the difference in tone and character between the pedal and the two amps is remarkable.

Anyone built this pedal and came to the same observations?  Maybe it is the input impedance difference between the two amps?  I have been too busy to work this one out myself.

Paul - I appologize for interrupting this thread.

[Doug H]

Very cool! Where do you get those modem enclosures from? They make such a good amp chassis, and you sure as heck can't beat the price!

I just get them surplus. Sometimes they have them, sometimes they don't. I used the same thing on the Firefly and I have one more for my next build.

They are actually pretty small, and I pushed the envelope (for me) with this build. It was difficult fitting the variable resistor, filter caps, all the pots and etc into this box. I am getting ready to start prototyping a wrecky kind of thing next. It should fit in my last modem box when I do the final build. After that, if I do any more amp builds I'm going to start using a bigger chassis.

Doug

[Eric H]

Paul - I appologize for interrupting this thread.

I  think this is very much on-topic

On my Fender Twin, this pedal is hands down a monster.  It sounds full and defined.

On my Reverend Hellhound, it sounds thin and piecing, sort of like a cranked treble booster.  I cannot explain it, but the difference in tone and character between the pedal and the two amps is remarkable.

Anyone built this pedal and came to the same observations?  Maybe it is the input impedance difference between the two amps?  I have been too busy to work this one out myself.

I think the impedance is similar --the tone-stacks are quite different, and probably are causing most of the difference. The tone-shaping that comes after a pedal is as important as what comes before (and within it).

As was previously mentioned --it's difficult to make a design that works well with everything. In another thread, the builder mentioned a problem with gettiing to the gig and finding too much bass, and not enough treble --this happens often enough it should be in the faq. I have pedals that only sound good in the bedroom, and some that only work on-stage --you need a lot of switches, and knobs to get both (in one pedal) and I prefer simple designs.

-Eric

[Doug H]

Doug,
Your comment above is interesting (about the HW89 being thin sounding on your new amp).  I built the HW89 per my own layout and it is one of my favorite pedals.  However,

On my Fender Twin, this pedal is hands down a monster.  It sounds full and defined.

On my Reverend Hellhound, it sounds thin and piecing, sort of like a cranked treble booster.  I cannot explain it, but the difference in tone and character between the pedal and the two amps is remarkable.

Yeah, I think a lot of pedals are pretty dependent on what type of amps you use with them. Up to this point, my pedals have been voiced for a flat-eq'ed transistor amp, no pull-bright (but I do engage a pull-fat switch). They happen to sound good on my firefly (no boost) too, which is sort of voiced like a midrangey vintage plexi marshall kind of thing. My pedals (including fuzz face) sound too bright on this Octal Fatness amp unless I back the amp treble off a little. Then they sound fine. But the hwy89 and hotsi (without the fat switch pulled) sound thin too, whereas they  sound real fat and full on the other amps.

I breadboarded Jake's Blue Magic and it sounds fantastic on this amp, very full and smooth, with the amp's treble control at 50%, which gives it a very clean and bright sound without any pedal. I suspect a TS would work well with it too. Maybe there's a couple different schools of thought- driving a darker amp with a treble booster vs. a mids boost on a brighter fendery amp.

Doug

[Paul Marossy]

Chico- No problem, this is what we were talking about - how it sounds with an amp...

Everyone - Yep. I have found that what amp you use with a pedal makes a great deal of difference to how it will sound. I test most of my pedals as stand alone devices, so I can get a true idea of how it sounds. I think Eric H is right, the tone stack in the amp will have a large effect on how it will sound. Some amps have the EQ before the preamp (ala Fender) and some have it after the preamp (ala Marshall), and this definitely has an effect on the sound. Input impedance of the amp will be a factor, too. I usually use the number 2 input jack on any amp that I use because it mellows out the shrieking treble a little bit. Most everything sounds good on my '74 Twin Reverb, but on my Hot Rod Blues DeVille, things can sound a lot different!
Some pedals seem to do a better job at dealing with any amp that you plug it into. I'll second on the Tube Screamer (TS808) as being one of those types of pedals. I'm sure there are lots more.  :wink:

I think the two trains of thought are probably how you generally have to approach things, taking into account the tone stack topology of the amp.

[WGTP]

I wonder if some distortions sound better at low/bedroom volumes and others at high/arena volumes due to harmonic content/dynamics, EQ, etc.  

[Paul Marossy]

"I wonder if some distortions sound better at low/bedroom volumes and others at high/arena volumes due to harmonic content/dynamics, EQ, etc."

It seems most definitely so in my experience.

[Eric H]

I wonder if some distortions sound better at low/bedroom volumes and others at high/arena volumes due to harmonic content/dynamics, EQ, etc.  

That 's what I was trying to say
EQ is probably the biggest factor. Gus Smalley made this point years ago: that the ts808/9 was popular with stage pros largely because of the thin bass that so many home players are trying to fix (much like the rangemaster did earlier).  That thin bass gets rid of the Fender woofiness when heavily overdriven, and helps the guitar sit better in a full-band stage-mix.

-Eric

[bwanasonic]

I wonder if some distortions sound better at low/bedroom volumes and others at high/arena volumes due to harmonic content/dynamics, EQ, etc.  

How else could they sell so many DigiCrap MultiFX pedals :wink:  "Gee, this thing sounded so awesome in my bedroom! Especially those *Jeff Beck* and *Santana* presets."  It's also why I like build reports from people who have tried an effect out with a live band. Sometimes the tone you get with the little SS amp on your bench at 3 am just doesn't translate to stage volumes.

Kerry M

[Lonestarjohnny]

This is a very good thread,
First Doug, thats a nice build you got goin, I'd like to add a few thing's to what Eric had to say, what your talking about happen's in about 99% of the club's your gonna play, your gonna have club's that will try to make your rig sound muddy or thin,
I'm luckey in the rig I played for 10 years when I was younger had the cure for these place's, I started out playin Rock on some smaller combo's that had these problem's, then as the gig's got bigger I switched to a Plexi and I started watching how the guy's at that time used the amp and the Strat, what I seen was the perfect machine, you jack the bright #1 chan to the low side of #2 cha, Plug in on the high side of 2, set the vol. on 2 to get your drive, on mine about 7 or 8, it's very adjustable in that area to get the drive you want, then as each room I played in to get the desired EQ I woul dial in just enough of the bright cha. say 3 to 5 and it never failed me in 10 years of playin that rig to get a decent tone,
with just a few pedal's for trick's I could go from Jimi to Dickey Betts type tone.
I've been working on other people's rig's for about 20 years now and what I do is for thier tone, not for me, I just give them thier choice of tone which sometime's can be very difficult to do on some amp's.
On the EQ  I see guy's here useing  all clean tone type capacitors, which when I use to many of these I find my tone to be on the clean side,I do like them but just in the coupling position, I like H.P. Orange drops in some amps for EQ, these give you a darker tone, some guy's still like the Ceramics for their highs, they say it gives a Grainey tone that sounds better to them, it still all boils down to EQ just like Eric was talkin about, any amp can be changed to have feature's that can overcome the problems of getting a good EQ, Bright Switch's, Fat switch's, Penetode/Triode Swi., just to name a few,
As experienced as Doug is I'm sure he can hit on a working value that'll make the amp perform the way he want's it to,
JD

[Paul Marossy]

JD-

That's one reason why I really like my Seymour Duncan Convertible - between the preamp modules, master volume, EQ section, speaker dampening control, variable wattage control and pentode/triode switch, you can really dial in a tone that you like in just about any situation.

About the jacking #1 to #2 thing, I don't quite follow how that works... is that a mod you actually do to the wiring of the input jacks? It sounds like a very cool idea... I've often wished that I had something in between the #1 and #2 jacks - #1 is too bright and #2 can be too dark, at times. Being able to blend the two seems like it could really make an amp more versatile.

[Lonestarjohnny]

Not mine Paul,
But I studied Hendrex to see how hw was getting his to work live so well,
All you do is take a short patch cord and plug it in to the brite channels High hole, take the other end and plug it into the low side of the dark channel , now plug into the high side of the dark channel with your guitar cord, dime out the dark cha. vol. and the start rolling your brite cha's vol. until the mix is right on for your ears, This is why I told somebody on another thread that a Mix pot will work between cha.s on a plexi or original style Bassman amp. but why should yu waste a good pot that you can use here on DIY when a short patch cord works just as well. when you do this you'll find out why the old sayin goes, Jim Marshall built the plexi, Leo Fender built the Strat, But it musta been GOD that designed them Both. LOL !, They do work good this way, But take it from an old Dummy, It's hard on your hearin after about 10 yr's with that Old Plexie fannin your pant's legs.
JD

[Paul Marossy]

"All you do is take a short patch cord and plug it in to the brite channels High hole, take the other end and plug it into the low side of the dark channel , now plug into the high side of the dark channel with your guitar cord, dime out the dark cha. vol. and the start rolling your brite cha's vol. until the mix is right on for your ears"

Oh, I think I understand that now. That works if you have an old Fender that actually has two independent channels that can be used simultaneously. But, if you have an amp that has only two input jacks and/or does channel switching via a relay, you can't do this trick. That's what was confusing me earlier... I was trying to see how that would work with only two input jacks. It can't!

Thanks for explaining that.  

[petemoore]

I ran for years Marshalls before I discovered that trick...er rather someone told me of it.
 Sure does make it easy to dial in the right amount of level bass and treble. Channel one volume starts working more like a treble control.
 Uh yes certainly works great !!