How many of you do this for a living?

[Sic]

How many of you are in the electronics industry? as in, actually went to school and now are being paid for things that have to do with electronics?

this could mean selling your own pedals to working for IBM.

There are so many talented people here, i've just been wondering who has been doing what with thier knowlege.

I often think... i wonder how much more i will know in 5 years... in 10 years...

will i come up with something extraordinary and revolutionary? (most new creations happen by accident, but still...)

If i am honestly interested in pursuing this... would any of you recommend attending school for it?

Im just kind of throwing out some thoughts, and would like some input from people a little bit more experienced (in life, and electronics) than i am.

If this is a bother, or a dead horse... sorry


Thanks ahead of time
-sic

[Brian Marshall]

I work in the electrical industry, but have little formal education.  Electrical is actually a lot different than electronics, but a lot of the same rules apply......  it's more about moving power than using it though.

brian

[Oliver]

Hi,

it's interesting... i thought for many times, that it would be nice to build and sell pedals and live from that income.
At the moment it's a hobby and really cheap way to get knowledge of the several sounds of pedals, that i normally had to buy for hundreds of Euro/Dollar.
If i couldnt build a pedal, i have to buy a Tubescreamer or Fulldrive, perhaps to see/her, that its not the right pedal for me an sell it as a used one and getting less money for it, as i payed.

I think, you can't discover the wheel for a second time, its already there.
But you can build a circuit, tweak it and make it more versatile to use with
different setups.

There is one other thing, i dont know how to offer my pedals - whitch price, whitch way (Ebay/building a Homepage?) there are so many
Pedalbuilders, who all build excellent Pedalboxes.

eventually one day the business flow?

bye
Oliver

[Peter Snowberg]

I worked for years with embedded control systems as a designer & builder. Now I'm doing "electrical handyman" installation and support a little on the side just to make ends meet. The S.F. Bay Area is so flooded with engineers right now (after the dot-com bust) that a Ph.D. won't even help much for placement with a job at McDonalds. (do you want some differential calculus and fries with that?)

I tried running an engineering company with 13 employees for a while and one investor tried to steal the company via a takeover. That takeover failed but in the process the damage done was too great to keep the company flying. That was a serious bummer because I had a 7 figure deal in the works with HP that got blown.

If you do ever invent something, the best thing you can do is to keep all the intellectual property rights to yourself. I may have lost my company, but I didn't end up giving the jewels to somebody else.

If you ever want to run a company, forget the formal electronics education in school and take business classes instead!

BTW: I didn't learn any of the electronics or computer stuff I know in school. The University of California curriculum was about 6 years behind state-of-the-art when I looked at it as a high school sophomore so I decided to teach myself instead. I have ZERO regrets about that decision. If you can get the basics down solid and you can teach yourself effectively, you can get FAR more education by teaching yourself. I was building circuits around the same cutting edge parts that the giant corporations were working with in their development labs.

I like an Einstein quote in situations like this, "There is no school I could have gone to in order to know what I know."

As an inventor, I would have to disagree with your statement "most new creations happen by accident". Inspiration is no accident and the work required to bring an inspired idea into commercial fruition is very hard work.

Best of luck and take care,
-Peter

[Oliver]

Hi Peter,

good words !!!! (at some parts its difficult for me and my not best English, to follow the sence, but over all its a good hint)

thanks!

Oliver

[puretube]

Peter: I fully agree with You & Einstein, and may recommend additionally: read, read, read.... (best: paperworx!)

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

If you ever want to run a company, forget the formal electronics education in school and take business classes instead!,,,,snip,,,,
If you can get the basics down solid and you can teach yourself effectively, you can get FAR more education by teaching yourself. -Peter

I agree with the education part (as a commercial fx manufacturer with a political science degree!) but, from what iI have seen there is not much in business/economics classes that relates to the Real World. I advise people to 1. study people they know who have their own businesses and 2. read up on white collar crime. I never saw an eco text that warns that your partner might rip you :wink: More than one rich kid has gone to Harvard Business school & then lost the family fortune.

[AL]

I would agree with most of what Peter said - especially learning the business side of things.  There are a few things I would add - Where are you located?  It's been my experience that it is a lot easier to get a decent job with no formal training - and some basic knowledge - in a bigger area.  I went to school for electronics but I live in such a small area that I couldn't find a job when I graduated     so I went back to school for another round.  

I would agree that you will learn more practical applications on your own. However, paying for your schooling is a sure fire way to force yourself to learn something. Sometimes electronics is pretty dry and boring and it's easy to skip things over unless your seeing that student loan bill every month. :wink: A few classes to cover the basics certainly couldn't hurt.

AL

[Chris Goodson]

I took AC/DC fundamentals, electronics and digital.  I finished school last summer with two certificates (Micromputer Tech and Cisco Networking).  But, there aren't many jobs like this around here.   I have made some $$ on the side selling a few pedals and fixing/modding things.

[Paul Marossy]

"If you can get the basics down solid and you can teach yourself effectively, you can get FAR more education by teaching yourself."

I agree with that, as I am self-taught in virtually every area - guitar, electronics, and what I do at work, which is mechanical engineering. Unfortunately, though, if you don't have a degree and you tell a prospective employer that you are self-taught, they don't seem to take you seriously. But, that hasn't stopped me from advancing in the field since practical experience on a wide variety of projects does seem to count for something. As I have said for a while, I am an oddball in the engineering world...

[petemoore]

A little more complicated at the start. \
 I've seen licensed electrical engineers that just barely tell one end of a wire from the other...could not read the simplest stuff like wire guages, and even with a working model to duplicate, made stupid extremely costly mistakes like 1000S$ of wire the wrong guage installed over a weeks time.
 I tried to kibetz during the process and these snotty stupid 'engineers' would tell me to sweep or some other post-diploma-esque order.
 I ended up diagnosing all their problems, then ripping most of what they had done out to get the prototype automated glove machine working. Uh Mechanical engineers were about the same.
 One of the engineers WAS an outstanding fellow, very intuitive, well trained, personable, a very good communicator...just about exactly the opposite of the other ones we had to put up with.
 Trying to explain to management that the 'respected' engineering firm is simply milking and ripping them off big time was shunted to ground until the unsatisfactory [total failure in many areas] work showed itself as non functioning.
 This is part of where I get the term "Money Men Moof Alot"...the amount they spent on that machine and the inept 'respected skilled tradesmen' [what a crock] was really astonishing...don't ever try something that's expensive, prototypical, and over your head...unless you like to feed money pits.
 I had another job working with 'engineers'...I'm inclined to think that alot of these 'engineers' opted for 'engineering' as a lesser evil to something like being a CPA or Doctor...as opposed to someone like me who kind of was like born to understand the stuff..the ability to work abstract concepts, space relations etc. if this gear goes this way which way will that gear go etc.   I'm certain we all posess equal potential, some are just better at hiding it I guess !!!  Just josh...
 These jobs had notes and photos taken of them extensively...and have since been discontinued, or actually moved to a 'cheeper' environment.
 I tried to tell these Amurican manufacturers that they simply can't get anywhere close to competing with foriegn labor, or large corporations...live and lose...oh I mean live and learn...no: Live and Lose.
 The money faucets flow has been slowed greatly, mostly the very rich corporation can compete these days.
 Name a company owned and operated by a 'last name' [individual] like there used to be ... they're all owned by Fannie May, or Beatrice, or some other non-real family name.
 The inventor never had it so bad.   IMO it doesn't matter what you have, if you can't flood the market with a derivitave of the product that can compete, you're done. Getting to be the only Entities that can compete these days are corporations...or as I like to call them the King Rats.
 The pure evil that money posesses, is coming out in colors these days.
 That's why more countries just lately, have adopted a new currency [including the 'U.S.' of Amurica]...this 'new' currency is lead. It cancels all debts.

[Peter Snowberg]

Lots of great info in this thread!

Sic, you can save yourself a couple of years of education time with the info here.

I must agree 1000% with Puretube.... Read, read, read!      

I have a large library, but not a single title in there would be recognizable to an English major. No fictional works.... no "great masters".... etc.

Oliver, sorry I used American slang in my text. I know some of it must be impossible to translate. Thank you for overcoming the difficulty of the German<->English translations and being part of this community!

Pete, I've dealt with engineers like that too. I call their attitude "suffering from rectal-cranial encompassment".

I had another job working with 'engineers'...I'm inclined to think that alot of these 'engineers' opted for 'engineering' as a lesser evil to something like being a CPA or Doctor...as opposed to someone like me who kind of was like born to understand the stuff..the ability to work abstract concepts, space relations etc. if this gear goes this way which way will that gear go etc. I'm certain we all possess equal potential, some are just better at hiding it I guess !!! Just josh...

Sic, pay really close attention to what Pete said above that I highlighted in red. I would argue that the ability to not only understand abstract concepts, but the ability to "relate" abstract concepts to each other and the real world is where inspiration is actually fueled.

Very very few inventions happen by accident IMHO, they come about by somebody who can think in the abstract making a relation between a piece of learned knowledge and a "problem" to be solved.

Take care,
-Peter

[Sic]

Perhaps you are right with the inventions thing. I was just recalling a number of biographies i read back in school, and one thing it was always mention would be that most inventions are made by mistakes.

As for the abstract thinking and the Einstein thing...

I started college when i was 16... i can honestly say i learned NOTHING at that school. I taugh myself just about everything i know, i was reading and writing at 2, etc etc etc. What i think is the most unique part of the way that i learn is the fact that i will take a small piece of information and incubate it... i.e. i will just let it sit in my head and go over it while i am doing stuff at work. After the day is over... i will usually understand MORE than what i read, because i am able to find a common connection with other facets of the same idea.

This gets me into trouble alot... alot of people think i am condescending and arrogant ( i even had a teacher compare me to the nazis)... but i am truely, honestly the complete opposite.

To be completly frank, i don't need school for learning, but i am trying to get out of my current job (managing a pizza place... really long hours, no breaks of lunches... bad pay) and the thing i keep noticing is all these jobs, no matter what field all say MUST HAVE <...> Qualifications.

Btw, if this is hard to follow i do apologize... playing online games a couple years ago really ruined my grammer and my writing "flow".

[Brian Marshall]

i learned basically nothing from my 1 year in college, or even my last couple years of highschool.  i geuss at the time i didnt see the point if i wasnt learning, or having any fun.

Now i see the point.  Career switching would be a lot easier.  The funny shit is if you want to go work at company they want you to have a degree, even if they sell door knobs, and you have a bachelors in 18th century american history.... totally unrelated.  Funny thing is these are the same types of people who are being "out sourced"

[Tony Forestiere]

My Goodness!

This thread is the crux of my "Confuzzelation" (to paraphrase Smoguzbenjamin).  :wink:

I have four children; two in college. These two "need The paper" because, not that they are stupid, they have no in-born talent for grasping the ethereal concepts inherent in in the fact that "The world cannot exist without Physics." The oldest wants to teach World and American History, the next wishes to be a dentist. Noble causes, but my God, LEARN to check the oil in YOUR car!!! :twisted:

Number three has challenged his science teachers since fifth grade by calling them to task. Is Black the absence or presence of all colors? His response: are we talking the additive or subtractive combination of color? At that point, these "papered" teachers have no idea of the concept of color theory, the ideology of the scale, frequency, or amplitude of what EMF is really about!

He will probably go to a trade school and blow most "engineers" who have BS degrees away. Just like his old man.

There are too few of us who will read and experiment and question and discuss and hypothesize and...

But then... we really need to be nice :wink:

BTW...In my opinion, the Greatest invention of Humankind has been the developement of the written language :idea:

[The Tone God]

"I have never let my schooling get in the way of my education." Mark Twain.

Andrew

[troubledtom]

i work fulltime on pedals and a job that i hate . i'm a bit in over my head, so to speak. ohh yah the band and the family, not mention BEER.
   the only reason i do not post my devices guts is because, i think i'm on to something. if i give out the schemo's ..........the one's here on this forum
will be the first to know.
   as soon as i can't make the demands of the market , i might post the stuff at the commonsound site.
   it's hard do do all this shit at the same time, i'm just glad my family understands.
    peace,
         - tom

[ryanscissorhands]

It's tempting to rant. I'll try not to.

I'm an electroncs newb, and wanted to get some help, so I went to my friend in 3rd year Electrical Engineering. He said he can do the math and the schematics, but couldn't identify parts on a circuitboard, and that he'll learn that in field once he gets a job. Until he gets practice, his theory is useless. Experience is invaluable.

In terms of getting a job, degrees are important. People need to see that nice piece of paper in a frame that means, "I have student loans; please hire me." Formal training is very important for finding a jb unless you know somebody in the field.

FINDING a job. That means that job exists, job is found, job is gotten. If you want to start a company on your own, you won't look down on yourself for not having a degree. You won't ask to see your own credentials. You need to be able to do it, that's all. Oh, wait, no. You need to be able to do it without electrocuting anybody.

Find job: Get formal training
Make job: Know what you're doing

Sorry for the rant. . .

[Chris R]

To be completly frank, i don't need school for learning, but i am trying to get out of my current job (managing a pizza place... really long hours, no breaks of lunches... bad pay) and the thing i keep noticing is all these jobs, no matter what field all say MUST HAVE <...> Qualifications.

In my experience one good contact will give you all the qualifications you need.  You just need one person to vouch for you to get around all the HR BS.  

when meeting an Electronics guy in your pizza store you should...
a) give him a free pizza
b) take his phone number

just an idea...

Chris

[LP Hovercraft]

My job strays far from the lofty visions I had as a child.
I look at DIY pedalmaking as a way to come close to the mad scientist I envisioned.  College bookstores would charge you 1000's of dollars for this great info we share with each other if published.  

I'd love to do this and would be ecstatic to live with solid blue collar pay for the DIY tonemaking arts.  Bob Moog, Roger Mayer and Mike Matthews get my salutations for being at the cutting edge of this with the right balance of book smarts and applied experiencial smarts at the right time.  
Another contradiction lies in the art vs. commerce area as touched on previously.  I personally see good electronic circuits as art.  Designers and technicians are working with a medium of control of electricity/tone for MUSIC (as similar to light/color/texture in painting or diction/subject in writing).  
The fuzz pedal, the synthesizer, etc, influenced the art of music by offering new colors for the musician.  Unfortunately, art and commerce can work at odds to one another.  Very tricky stuff to balance.  Wearing a business condom wont even work.  Maybe plate-mail armour and a photographic memory to hide your ideas upstairs could work.   Fun is the king in this area to me.  Purely homemade music is enlightening and gratifying.  Any of you hiring?  :?