Is This Legal ?

[Torchy]

Saw this on ebay - is it ok to advertise it as a TS-808 clone

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=22669&item=3727141846&rd=1

[dosmun]

I would have to say no it is not legal.   Since they are using someone elses name it is pretty blatant.

[Fret Wire]

I think describing it as TS-808 clone is ok. Naming it a "tubescreamer" or "TS-808" isn't. I kinda think Ibanez has those trademarked. He didnt exactly water-down the name or trademark.

It does have nicely done graphics. In this day and age, he could have at least given her breast augmentation. BTW, I'll have to count next time, I don't rememeber over 100 parts?

[Ed G.]

I'd say that based on the graphics, it is not legal. It does not say 'clone' on the pedal, it says that it is a Tubescreamer TS-808 Overdrive Pro. If Ibanez decided it wanted to mess with small fry like this, they'd have a case.

[AL]

I'd have to agree with Fretwire - he's just calling it a clone and not actually using the name - it appears. There are a few things I would question - one being the already mentioned 100 parts count. I don't remember how parts in the TS either but 100 seems a little excessive.  Unless he means he's tested 100 chips.

Also, the builder states "All the parts are exactly the same as those used in the original TS808" - well technically they're not - those are 1% resistors and there's a silver mica cap in there. That may be nitpicking, as the newer parts probably make it better, but they're not "exact". Also, Hendrix didn't use an 808 - more nitpicking?

On the positive side (I don't want to sound like I'm slagging the builder he or she definately has more guts than I do) It looks like a good build. Nice construction, good layout, good parts, beautiful graphics and at that price it's certainly cheaper than a reissue 808. One problem may be the on/off toggle instead of a DPDT. Still, it appears to be a solid piece of work. I wish my boxes looked that good. The added 9V supply is a nice touch.

AL

[Hal]

i think more importantly, though, its not only illigal, but unethical.  Ibanez is reissuing the TS-808, also with the same chip.  He's selling it at about the same price.  Besides the fact that this "clone" is "boo-teek," I dont think its right to do that...

[AL]

Hmmm?? After some closer reading - it may be illegal. It states "exactly" for the parts - that may be an issue. Not that a million other people haven't done the same build - but, blatantly stating what's in it may stir up some problems.

AL

[Torchy]

Thanks guys, pretty much what I thought on the legality side. I also noticed the parts count and Hendrix reference.

The guy has used an aluminium case (from Maplin ) exactly the same as the ones I have - they fold like paper when you use a stomp switch which I guess is why he used a toggle switch. Nice graphics though

[Fret Wire]

Al, I should have worded my post better. I meant it was alright to call it a TS-808 clone in his ad. He is labeling it right on his box as Tubescreamer and TS-808. Ibanez owns those trademarks.

Like Ed said, they could torture him legally. Luckily, the same beancounters that decide it cost too much to make the pedals truebypass, also decide if it's worth it financially to proceed after small fry like him. Could you imagine if the corporate lawyers had no restraints? Out of boredom they could decide to legally pummel the poor bastard for one lousy  clone.

[smoguzbenjamin]

No offence guys, but no idiot is gonna believe that that is a real Ibanez TS-808. It just doesn't *look* like an 808 That's enough for me.

Right now where was I.... Oh yeah Leisure Suit Larry... Version 1.0 :mrgreen: The very first....

[Samuel]

Perhaps worse, though, in a sense...is that JD SLeep's PCB I spy in one of those pictures?

[Fret Wire]

Ben, that's one of the exact reasons many corporations sue. They will protect the image and name association of their product. MacDonalds does it all the time, even if it does not resemble their products. They do not want anyone confusing their products and trademarks with anything.

If this guy did it enough, they would shut him down. Ibanez wants you to remember that the Tubescreamer is the green pedal SRV used, not a pedal with a chick on top.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

Could you imagine if the corporate lawyers had no restraints

They don't, if someone else is paying the bills! The lawyers for Roland USA threatened me over the Frostwave SpaceBeam (infrared theremin). gave up when I pointed out prior art (forty yrars prior..)

[Fret Wire]

Perhaps worse, though, in a sense...is that JD SLeep's PCB I spy in one of those pictures?

Really? I didn't recognize it. I just thought of something. It's a nice extra that he includes a wall wart, but...including an adjustable model is a mistake. The buyer accidently sets it too high, fries something, then blames the builder. Pedal manufactuers sell fixed power supplys to match the voltage of the pedal. And include plenty of warnings about using their's and only their supply's, as well as polarity symbols.

[smoguzbenjamin]

Ben, that's one of the exact reasons many corporations sue. They will protect the image and name association of their product. MacDonalds does it all the time, even if it does not resemble their products. They do not want anyone confusing their products and trademarks with anything.

If this guy did it enough, they would shut him down. Ibanez wants you to remember that the Tubescreamer is the green pedal SRV used, not a pedal with a chick on top.

True, the thought hadn't occured to me... Man I really am not suitable for law school. That's why I like electronics :mrgreen:

Guess I wasn't thinking on a big enough scale. Yup, it's time for my coffee. Long day at school, not using my real name and everything... :mrgreen: Ok time for coffee now... Bye! *turns off PC*

[jsleep]

Samuel caught it, it's not legal because he/she is using my artwork without my permission.  My international legal team will be mounting a multi-million dollar (pound) law suit against this perpetrator.

JD

[Samuel]

haha - I demand a finder's fee of the millions you sue for, JD. Also, why in the world does (s)he have the resistors standing on end? The layout is made for flat resistors....weird.

[Fret Wire]

Is that your insignia right under the diodes? "Screamer". Good looking out Samuel!

[petemoore]

Looks like he's directly attempting to profit from using Ibanez Tubescreamer reputation directly as a marketing strategy.
 I wouldn't be surprized at all if they persue this guy, just to set an example.
 I think he's setting himself up as a perfect candidate for legal action...ya let one get away with it, and ten others will follow suit.
 Selling a tubescreamer without saying TS, is probably a slower process than using the name...how many guitarists that buy booteek stuff would recognize 'OA feedbackloop clipper' for what it is?
 What do you think about the legality of using a catch phrase like: "The same circuit as SRV used"...these words are the best I could muster to describe a TS circuit without actually typeing TS or Tubescreamer.
 By the way is "TS" also copyrighted or trademarked?
 It would be extremely difficult, in court, to establish that the ad 'wasn't using the Tubescreamer legacy as a selling point for his copy. The best I think he can hope for is that they don't see it, or for some reason or other choose not to mess with the small fry. I say Good Luck!!! :roll:

[Fret Wire]

Also, why in the world does (s)he have the resistors standing on end? The layout is made for flat resistors....weird.

Maybe to hide the fact that he's using JD's pcb layout. :?: