arion phaser schematic or mods?

[backintheussa]

I just ordered one of these from MF after realizing that it is much cheaper than making a phaser and also recomendations from a thread (http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=18954) in this forum. Does it come with a schematic? If not, does anyone have the schematic? The thread that talked about this pedal said to change the caps. Does this mean all of the caps? Is it just tweaking values or actually changing material of the caps?

Thanks for any help!
-Fred Meyer

[mikeb]

I've got a pretty good schematic collection, but have no Arion stuff at all, sorry. Perhaps someone else?

Also I couldn't find in that thread anything about changing the caps, possibly it was referring to electrolytics in old pedals that dry up and need replacing?

Don't you hate being answered with more questions?  :wink:

Mike

[Leandro]

I have the Arion Stereo Phaser.  I'd never had a phaser before, so I have no basis of comparison, but it's pretty decent.

The one thing that bugs me about it (and should be your first mod to think of) is that when you switch it on it really boosts your volume.  This makes it a very conspicuous on-stage effect.

[Fret Wire]

It's back on sale again at Musician's Friend for $14.99

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040625075611069166038194122179/g=guitar/s=effects/search/detail/base_pid/150503/

[Hal]

dayam, i paid $20 :-D

its relaly cheep...kinda artificial, but its a cool special effect.  There's a trim pot inside that controls the range of the rate control....mine was set a _tiny_ bit too low so that you can go _really_ slow, but not _that_ fast.  So i fixed it, becuase i sometimes like the machine gunning choppy sound, especially with distortion....

Maybe i'll draw it up at some point.  Its pretty complicated, but....I dunno I'll try at some point probably :-D

[Torchy]

Bejeezus - $14.99 is £8.23 ..... wanna buy me one and ship it to UK anyone ? I'm serious - These are about £30 here ($54  :shock: )

Typical rip-off UK prices ... http://www.musicianshop.com/cgi/musicianshop-uk.cgi/pageeffectspedals/40dc60962525

And that "Chicken Salad" for $29.99 (£16.45) ...

Why dont MF ship to UK  :evil:

[Hal]

check e-bay :-D

[Leandro]

Why dont MF ship to UK  :evil:

Yeah, I had to ask my mother's cousin (who lives in the US) to not only receive the shipment at her home, but to also pay for it with her credit card, because MF doesn't accept international credit cards.

Good deals, though, so I'm pleased.  

[cd]

Why not take this as a learning opportunity and trace the schematic yourself.  I'll be it's very similar to other phase circuits out there.

[Leandro]

Why not take this as a learning opportunity and trace the schematic yourself.  I'll be it's very similar to other phase circuits out there.

I've never looked under the hood of my commercial pedals.  How difficult/risky is it to disassemble them, considering that later I'd want to put them back together?  I've got two Boss pedals and three Arions.  Any gotchas or caveats?

[Mark Hammer]

The most obvious mods you can do on a 3-knobber are to:

a) identify the LFO range cap and mod the LFO to have a high and low range.

b) identify the resistor that brings the dry signal to the mixing stage and install a dry-lift switch for vibrato.

c) swap out the caps for a univibe cap set.

Unfortunately, there is a 99% chance that the FET switching system will simply be a "wet-lift" arrangement that cancels the wet (phase-shifted) signal and simply leaves the rest of the circuit in there and always on.  The most immediate implication is that if you install a dry-lift switch for vibrato, you will need to switch back before bypassing the effect or else you'll find yourself without wet OR dry signal.

[ExpAnonColin]

At $15, ebay and not, I don't see any real reason to schematicize it...  It's not really a great phaser and is easily as complex as many of the othrs, if you're looking for a more simple phaser design there, they really don't get too simple at all, most contain an input buffer and 4 stages and an LFO at the minimum.  Mark's suggestions are all good ones, and don't require a schematic, just some planning and poking around.  Also, somepeople believe that phasers actually sound *better* in a feedback loop, so you could always try basically putting a fairly high value, maybe 100k to 500k, resistor between th einput and output.  If that's not going well, you can always try putting in an actual gain stage... but in the world of feedback loops, there are never any guarantees.

-Colin

[backintheussa]

I will trace it out as it would be good experience, but I was really seeking to see if anyone found out that it was similar to another phaser. I will try Mark's suggestions and see how they each work out. The feedback loop suggestion also sounds interesting. I was going to build a phase 90 or 100, but they was no way I could get the parts for $15 and I don't have that much money to fool around with.

Thanks for the response and suggestions, I'll keep this updated with my experiences.

-Fred Meyer

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

At $15, an interesting 'mod' would be to have TWO of them, wioth a switching arrangement to run them in series or parallel.
I can imagine some pretty sick effects as two phasers go in and out of sync.

[ExpAnonColin]

At $15, an interesting 'mod' would be to have TWO of them, wioth a switching arrangement to run them in series or parallel.
I can imagine some pretty sick effects as two phasers go in and out of sync.

And, without a huge amount of work with an o-scope, you could pretty easily make a way to connect the LFO's of two of them, which would also be interesting... not so much of adding stages as just creating a double-phaser.

-Colin

[Hal]

i lied im not tracing this.....

I just poped it open again, and its crazy :-D.  
There are 3 or 4 inline op-amps...and a lot of components :-D

The funny thing is, it uses mostly high-quality parts.  Comapred to bosses, which use those crappy clear caps, the arion uses mostly greenies.  But the input cap is ceramic.  Thats wak.  Maybe i'll change that.

[Eric H]

"Comapred to bosses, which use those crappy clear caps"
In what way are the Boss caps  inferior to the green ones?

-Eric

[Hal]

"Comapred to bosses, which use those crappy clear caps"
In what way are the Boss caps  inferior to the green ones?

-Eric

the sound :-D

Greenies are good quality caps.  The ones in my boss DS-1 are not.  They sound "munchy" - almost like ceramics.  

the main point of most DS-1 mods are to get them outa there and put other caps in.  The changes in values make some differance, but the change in types of caps is what makes the pedal sound "better".

[Eric H]

the sound :-D

Greenies are good quality caps.  The ones in my boss DS-1 are not.  .

The reason I asked is that these are both garden-variety mylar-film caps. I find them pretty much interchangeable, myself. I'm not trying to start an argument --that's my experience.

-Eric

[Hal]

ok :-D

sorry sorry if i sounded like i was attacking you, i didn't meen to.  

When i pull those out of my DS-1, I'll try 'em out in my multiface and see how they sound.