another one addressed at RG, JD...

[Hal]

i didn't wanna include this in the other thread, but the other one got me thinking...would you guys ever consider selling "kits" for you effects.  Im not sure what a kit should include - board or no board, and if so, drilled? Box? switch ? led ? jacks ?

but either way, it might be nice to be able to buy all the parts in one place, for a reasonable price.  Either that, or maybe set up some sorta deal with steve to sell kits.  

I mean, when i built my easyface from the GEO layout, i bought all the parts from steve, and it took over an hour to make sure i was getting the right stuff.  Also, since i made my own board, _no_ money went to GEO for that...

[R.G.]

Good point.

I've tried to get Frank Clarke, who used to license GEO's layouts, JD, and Steve at smallbear to do entire kits. No luck so far.

I used to peddle my own PCBs and went into full kits for a while. The kits were dynamite sellers.

Steve is in the best position to do this, obviously, and I first offered him the GEO PCB licensing option back when he first started up, but he has been pretty clear with me that he has made a conscious decision to not carry and resell my PCB layouts nor kits of my board parts. I'm not entirely clear on why that is, but, hey, it's his business to run as he sees fit.

[puretube]

they are probably aware of the fact, that the thin (legal) line between original and clone gets thinner, the closer you get to the final product...
(and try to market it under a "borrowed" name...)


BTW: I addressed the boss of one of the major US mfrs quite a while ago, to sell pre-shaped, pre-drilled, unprinted "smallastonesized" boxes to the DIY community....

he was not so amused...


[sorry to have intercepted your thread]

[mikeb]

Hmmm ... I thought it would be simply that putting together kits is a PITA, and that the pricing to make it feel less of a PITA would be too expensive for most people to feel is reasonable.

Mike

[R.G.]

Hmmm ... I thought it would be simply that putting together kits is a PITA, and that the pricing to make it feel less of a PITA would be too expensive for most people to feel is reasonable.

I think that's more like it. I don't think it was legal edges, although it might have been.

Before I gave up the mail order business that I did not have time to do correctly,  I did find a place that will kit up all the resistors, caps and other junk for 5% of the price of the parts, supplied in kitted plastic bags.

[Paul Marossy]

There's a place called "Kits-R-Us" that sells various electronic kits which are kind of fun, educational type things as well as things you can actually use. I believe that the owner of the company has a small workforce of about 6 or 8 people overseas (in China, I think) that creates the various kits that they offer. It would be cool to do something like that, but strictly for DIY guitar effects. In addition to that, maybe some tube amp kits would be cool, too. If I had a lot of money and some time, I would get right on it, if anyone was interested.

[black mariah]

Hell, I'd do this if there was enough of a call for it. I'm a crappy builder, but I can order parts like nobody's business. :lol: I don't have a full-time job, so I could actually devote a good chunk of time to it...

So is there actually a demand for a service like this? :?:

[Hal]

yea i mean, it would be pretty simple to set up, i think...

the real limiting factor would have to be price.  I've seen some kits available, but they're always way overpriced, and too simple.  Like $80 for a rangemaster kit.

but if someone could sell a foxx tone machine kit....hmmm...lets see...
Resistors
1 - 220 ohm
2 - 1k
1 - 1k5  (1.5k)
3 - 4k7  (4.7k)
2 - 10k
1 - 15k
1 - 22k
3 - 47k
5 - 100k
1 - 150k
1 - 470k
1 - 4M7  (4.7M)
resistors - 22 total, $2.20
Pots
3 - 50k linear
$4.50
Capacitors
1 - 0.001uF
1 - 0.003uF  
1 - 0.05uF
2 - 0.1uF
8 - 10uF
Greenies/electros (?) 13 - not more than $5
Transistors
4 - 2N3565 or BC237B transistors.  Just about any NPN
   transistor will work well in this circuit. $1

Other
4 - 1N34A germanium diodes (or other germanium diodes)$1
4 - Transistor sockets (optional).  SIP socket will work for this layout.$1
2 - quarter inch jacks $3
1 - DPDT heavy duty footswitch 3pdt, LED, bezel, and resistor - $8
1 - SPST toggle switch $2
9v battery snaps & holder and/or DC jack $.5
Copper-clad board, etchant, 24 gauge stranded wire - predrilled board - $10
Enclosure$8

Copyright 2002  JD Sleep
Guitar Effects Projects

totals out to under $50

and that leaves room for profits in each component - resistors dont cost 10 cents each, closer to 1 cent...

I dunno, it seems like it would work.

[Paul Marossy]

$50 plus shipping sounds a lot more reasonable than $300-400 for a "boutique tube screamer clone".  

[black mariah]

That's just $50 or so for parts. Throw on some options like predrilled boxes, installation of mounting brackets, maybe even box finishing...

This is sounding like a good idea the more I think about it. :lol: But still it's a question of what kind of demand there is for it.

[Paul Marossy]

Yeah, the idea is a good one. I'm sure that demand would fluctuate up and down, probably quite a bit I would think. There seems to be a consistent, cyclical flow of people new to building effects. Excitement is high, then it dies down, and then it goes back up again. It seems to me that the key is being able to "ride the storm out". This would have to be a side thing or for someone with lots of time and a little money to do. If you think most of your income is going to come from it, you're probably gonna go hungry... Parts is probably a little different story, but I doubt that would raise a family, too. There is a demand, but also a lot of competition.

[mikeb]

yea i mean, it would be pretty simple to set up, i think...

the real limiting factor would have to be price.  I've seen some kits available, but they're always way overpriced, and too simple.

Aye, there's the rub ..... to the person selling the kit, the pricing is 100% accurate and reflects the work involved in getting those parts ordered, sorted, counted out, verified, packaged and so on.

I would bet that, like with most jobs, you want more and more money the more boring  it is / longer you work at it! For those of us who like creating music / electronic devices / stuff, packaging upteen versions of a kit is boring to the extreme - hence, you'll be wanting (say) US$20 on top of the parts costs just for your time and 'pain and suffering'.

BTW, check out the commonsound kit pricing:
http://4mspedals.com/order.html

Mike

[puretube]

but if someone could sell a foxx tone machine kit....hmmm...lets see...

for that one, it might work;

but as soon as it comes to a "Mig Buff" or "Tube Dreamer" or similar,
if tryin to advertise them under their known real names:
be sure someone`s gonna step on your foot....


BTW, and not OT: anybody know a cheap mfr for duplicating PCBs that are not lay-outed by CAD, but by hand?

[zener]

Ok, this might help if ever that business-to-be of selling kits will come to realization.

I'm not sure on how cheap resistors can be in the US or other places. Here in my country, resistors are "cheap", if the exchange rate is to be considered. $1 =P56. A single 5% 1/4w resistor here costs only 25 cents (in our currency). That means if you have $1 here, you can get more than 200 resistors. How much is 200 resistors if it's 10 cents as what is listed above ($), $20 :shock:  That is already a 4-day pay of a minimum wage worker here.

The price I mentioned is at retail, therefore the wholesale price will be cheaper.

I'm not sure about the caps because the price often varies with the value (uf). But I'm sure that you can get here all those caps in the parts list above for less than $1. How about 5 linear pots or 5 1/4" stereo jacks for less than $1? 4 1N34A diodes for less than 50 cents ($)? There are more electronic parts/components here in my country that you may find cheap.

So, if ever a business like this would come out soon, the owner should consider outsourcing parts in places like my country or anywhere else where these parts are cheap as hell.

But of course, there might be constraints, factors that might offset or totally make the supposed low costs a bit higher than that of US-based suppliers. The bulk and frequency of parts order from the supplier, which is actually depends on how large is the market for kits, and taxes/tariff. I just dunno about the latter. That would need some int'l trade and customs researching but I think that would be as simple as sending a package to a friend.

[gez]

BTW, and not OT: anybody know a cheap mfr for duplicating PCBs that are not lay-outed by CAD, but by hand?

I think there's a bloke in Ireland who does this.  You can send him a layout and he'll do the necessary work.  I'll have a look this afternoon to see if I can find his details (though I might have thrown them away).

Anyone used him? (I think he used to advertise, or still does, in EPE magazine).

[gez]

PT, here's the details

PRINTED CIRCUIT BOARDS - QUICK SERVICE.  Prototype and production artwork raised from magazines or draft designs at low cost.  PCBs designed from schematics.  Production assembly, wiring and software programming.

Contact Patrick at Agar Circuits.  

Email agar@argonet.co.uk

Phone 028 9073 8897

Fax 028 9073 1802

He’s based in Belfast, Northern Ireland and will do free prototype boards with quantity orders.  The magazine is 2 years old though, so details may have changed.

No idea how much he charges, but he’s the only one I know of who does this…

[crawler486]

Guys, don't you think going out into the mainstream will somehow diminish the interest of DIYers? If it becomes so ordinary, it will lose its appeal.

just a thought.....

[jsleep]

Guys, I've tried this, to some degree, and (I think) I just can't get the price down to a place where the kits are attractive to buyers, EVEN THOUGH it will cost them about the same amount to buy all the parts themselves from Steve or mouser.  I haven't been able to figure out a way to do this and make it vaiable, it is labor intensive to assemble kits and not many DIY-types want to pay for that labor (that's why they are DIY-types! ;-)  ).  I get requests for kit quotes all the time and when I send the price out (usually around) $45 or $50 for a COMPLETE kit) I rarely ever get a reply and have only sold 2 kits in 2.5 years.

JD Sleep

[puretube]

thank you, gez

( http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/agar/ )
I`ll try that one - got lots of "ancient" layout-works
that aren`t in a digital form, and I`m getting a little
tired esp. of drilling.
The other reason are some newer solidstate thingies
that are too tiny-traced to "homebrew"..

if it works out, that`s another beer for You!  

[Hal]

it might work better if its only for components, and not box, switch, etc...that would bring the price down, but then shipping would be a problem  :cry:

oy