Anybody ever used a breath controller with guitar?

[Mark Hammer]

We've had some discussions about vocoders, and foot controllers, and envelope control, and sequencer control, and light beam controllers over the years, but we've never really talked much about breath controllers.  They seem to have fallen out of favour, or maybe they never really had that many  supporters/users in the first place.

For the uninitiated, breath controllers have traditionally been used in conjunction with keyboard synths, as a supplement to the usual joysticks, bender bars, ribbon controllers, and pressure-sensitive aftertouch, in order to add more nuance and expressiveness.  I guess the idea is that if you want a filter to open up like it does with voice, a person can probably control itbetter with breath than they can with their hand.  Equally importantly, when you have a fully polyphonic keyboard, or better, TWO of them, freeing up a hand to be able to play notes is a GOOD thing.  The controller itself is essentially a pressure sensor that you blow on via a mouthpiece that efficiently routes your breath to the transducer.  My guess is that it is essentially a subaudio envelope follower.

The chief shortcoming is similar to that of talk-boxes: you have to be, or rather your HEAD has to be, in a certain spot to use them (although, in principle, a wireless breath controller should be feasible).  Unlike talkboxes, though, audible audio seems to have little impact on them.

So, has anybody every dickered with these things?  Does it feel natural, or unnatural?  Are there parameters that seem more natural to control than others?  Is using it more disruptive or distracting than using your foot on a wah or volume pedal?  Is it something you can use at the same time as your foot and hands?  I'm curious.

[Tim Escobedo]

First you have to find a breath controller that you can interface to something.  :wink:

I've had some ideas in my head, being held back by the lack of usable and/or affordable pressure and "bite" sensors for the DIY market. A coupl years ago, I made a simple wind synth controller, a real Rube Golbergish hack of a thing that used sprung shutter over a LED/LDR combo. It kinda worked OK for what it was, but it was quite a hack.

[Peter Snow]

Actually, you don't necessarily need a pressure sensor, I have a circuit somewhere that uses a microphone to detect breath pressure.  I guess it works because the harder you blow the louder the "hissing" noise and vice versa.  Plug the mic into an envelope detector to produce a CV and voila, a breath controller.   I think it was called The Synblo, an E&MM project if I remember correctly.   Can't find it on the web anymore though....

Peter

[aron]

I had a schematic but it was hard to read. There was an article in Electronic musician. The breath controller drove a VCA so you could control the dynamics at least.

I have a Steiner's master touch and it has external input -> VCA and VCF. It makes everything sound like a trumpet (seriously).

The only problem I could see with Guitar is that you would have 3 things to deal with now. Left hand, right hand coordination, picking and blowing. arggghhhh Hard enough to do just the left and right!

Not only that, the breath controller is great for attacks and it might be kind of weird to handle the attacks with breath plus the picking, .... I don't know.

Worth a try I would imagine. The Soul Kiss was a good take on the optical wah in the mouth.

[aron]

Oh BTW: I have the KING of breath controller synths - the VL1. Plus I have the VL board in my S90, plus I have the SY99, had the SY77, had the DX7, have a DX7ii centennial, have the (broken) CS01, Steiners Master Touch, had the soul kiss, have two Pro Ones with breath control, have an Anatek breath control module, have an MCS2, have a BC1, BC2, BC3, have a WX7 so.... uh yeah I like breath control.  :roll:

[Peter Snow]

OK, I found the Synblo schematic.  Aron, I think this is the same one you had. It has a VCF and VCA built in (2xLM13600 and 1xCA3080).  It's a PDF and when you zoom in it is quite readable. Not sure where it came from - one of the Scandanavian sites I think (Anders Sponton?).

Peter

[StephenGiles]

I probably have the Synblo circuit in my attick somewhere.........but first I need some sleep............yawns......
Stephen

[Mark Hammer]

Got both the Synblo and the EM article (although the EM article actually assumes the pre-existence of a functioning breath controller and simply implements it to control volume via a CLM6000).

Aron:  So, tell us, what's it like?

Peter: Lunch next week some time.  Been a while.  The Indian buffet behind the EDC building is cheap and fabulous.

Steve:  Lullaby, and goodnight.  Just so you know, while you were out fox hunters took over the world.

[Peter Snowberg]

There's also the "hot-wire" anemometor approach:

http://www.discovercircuits.com/S/s-wind.htm

[aron]

Here's a live cut of a VL1 patch. I was sitting in with one of the bands here. This one is "acoustic" sounding. I have a more electronic one with filter etc...

http://www.diystompboxes.com/sndz/liveBC.mp3

It's weird, it's never crossed my mind to use it with the guitar. :?

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

If you are looking at blowing down a tube for a controller, there are 2 sepearate classes, 1. where you actually blow a volume of air down, and 2. where \the tube is sealed & you vary the pressure in it.
The first type is common for DIY, either you blow aside a vane to do the LDR/LED thing, or else the rush of air past a mic pickup is used as input to an envelope follower to give a control voltage.
I suppose you would have all the troubles of trumpet players with their instrument full of spit etc...

[primalphunk]

Oh BTW: I have the KING of breath controller synths - the VL1. Plus I have the VL board in my S90, plus I have the SY99, had the SY77, had the DX7, have a DX7ii centennial, have the (broken) CS01, Steiners Master Touch, had the soul kiss, have two Pro Ones with breath control, have an Anatek breath control module, have an MCS2, have a BC1, BC2, BC3, have a WX7 so.... uh yeah I like breath control.  :roll:

How does the anatek breath control module work?  I mean this from a very basic idiots perspective.  What other things do you have to have in order to be able to make use of it?  Man, whatever happened to that company?   ...they made so many cool little widgets...

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

Man, whatever happened to that company?   ...they made so many cool little widgets...

They sure did! http://www.keyboardmuseum.org/ar/a/anat/anat.html

Does any one have their old mail address?

[aron]

Anatek - blow into Breath Controller - out of the Anatek comes different types of MIDI messages.

So you just plug it into any MIDI keyboard or effect and blow away.

If you guys know of any new breath controller stuff, let me know. I pretty much buy anything available.... I'm crazy about that thing.

[primalphunk]

Hmmm...Decided to google for breath controller stuff a little and came across midi solutions.  They have a lot of very anatek-like products even the enclosures are kind of similar.  The breath controller product that they have is $199...  ouch!

FWIW,
James