TS 808 vs 9

[LinuxMan]

Hi.

Is there a big difference between TS-808 and TS-9? Can an "untrained" ear
hear the difference? Where's the difference?

We are talking about a simple 2 resistors change. I would say that the
resistor on the end (pulldown) doesn't  change the sound at all. Am I wrong?

Cheers
LM

[MartyMart]

The two resistors at the output to which you refer were used in the 808 because at that time the pedal was being used mostly to drive the input of `tube amps.
To reflect the growing use of transistor amps, when the TS9 was introduced, the values were changed.
So there must be a volume "bump" involved here.
The 9's that i've modded do improve with this process but that also includes a better sounding op-amp (JRC4558/TI4558P) rather than the quite awful TA75558P ! lowering the values of the resistors in the drive circuit to offer cleaner lower settings and dirtier higher settings and improvement to the bottom end with a cap change or two.
Just altering the two resistors to 100ohm and 10k, i agree would be quite subtle, but combined with these other changes is a huge improvement.
Marty.

[cd]

http://geofex.com/Article_Folders/TStech/tsxfram.htm

All other things being equal (i.e. opamp) there is no big difference.

[MartyMart]

Thanks for that link cd, very interesting stuff and i agree, to answer the question, there's not a lot of diffrence in sound just around 300 bucks in price !! go figure ??  
Marty.

[LinuxMan]

http://geofex.com/Article_Folders/TStech/tsxfram.htm

All other things being equal (i.e. opamp) there is no big difference.

Yeah, I read that thing (it is the TS bible). I'm just interested in some other
thoughts on the matter from people who heard the two (808 and 9) face to
face (with the same opamps offcourse).

Cheers
LM

[MartyMart]

OK, i had both briefly, well for about a month or two, the TS9 was a reissue and the 808 was an original 1980 version, which i happened to pick up quite cheaply as "808's" go !.
The 808 sounded better but to be honest not as "amazing" as all the hype would have you believe, not bad drive and that "mid hump" which is well documented.
After a swop of the 9's op amp and the two resistors in question, there was no difference at all in drive or tone, so .....
Sold the 808 and made a profit, upgraded the 9 some more and all was well.I still have the "heavily modded" TS9 and use it all the time.
Hope that seals it?
PS: I think my ROG designed "Tube reamer" sounds better though !  must be the true bypass and NE5534 op amp.
Marty.

[fatoldsun]

it depends what amp you're using, too. you won't notice the differences unless you've got a tube amp. i have an 808, ts9, ts10 and a ts9 ri. i  use the 808 mainly as a boost (d-2 t-2 v-10) and run the ts10 (d-5 t-2 v-5) combined with it for overdrive. to get the ts sound everyone talks about you need to crank the level of you're amp right about to the point it is starting to break up (distort). then use the ts to push it over the edge. the 808 is much warmer and natural though. it comes out more when you're using it as a boost more so than for gain. but it doesn't take a trained ear to hear it. some people aren't looking for that. they want more grit or drive or less mids. go for the sound you want. but when you do the 808 mod to any of the other ts's, including the 5 and 7 with some extra help, they all sound identical. so if you don't have an 808 all ready, don't waste the money!

[LinuxMan]

Well, I was thinking about puting a switch on a TS clone that can choose
between 808 and 9 based just on those 2 resistors. I am just worried if that
would make any audible difference at all.

Well, if it doesn't I may just put some other function with that switch (like
more drive or something).

Cheers
LM

[primalphunk]

Well, I was thinking about puting a switch on a TS clone that can choose
between 808 and 9 based just on those 2 resistors. I am just worried if that
would make any audible difference at all.

Well, if it doesn't I may just put some other function with that switch (like
more drive or something).

Cheers
LM

If you think you might be missing something just slap in the 808 resistors(I can't hear a difference between 808 and 9).  Unless your ears are much better than mine I doubt you'd really want to use a switch to select between the two.  If you're dying to add an extra function maybe you could try a warp control?  I think you'd just need an extra pot.  Mark Hammer just posted a really simple explanation of how this can be done on a tubescreamer or od-1.  I plan on giving this a try myself.

peace,
James

[cd]

I wouldn't bother with a switch like that either, unless you want to do quick A/B testing, playing blindfolded with someone else switching, of course.  One tweak of the tone knob or volume control and you obliterate any difference.  Use the switch for the clipping diodes instead.

[fatoldsun]

i agree. the difference is subtle and can be compensated for somewhere. the diode switch would definitely be a better choice.

[LinuxMan]

And the diode clipping arrangements doesn't make that big of a difference
either, so I think I'll just leave the switch out altogether and go with the
original 808.

Thanks guys
LM

[mlabbee]

I've built a ts clone that switches between the usual diode arrangement and a silicon/LED combo.  The difference in sounds is pretty dramatic - it just takes a little experimenting to get the gain for each option to match.  I tried many other diode combos (germanium, various assymetricals), but my ear just did not hear enough of a difference to justify putting them all in the pedal.

[jimbob]

Im thinking about doing that mod to my perf ts-808 ( switching between the led's and the original diode arrangment) HOw would i do this and what kind if switch?

[mlabbee]

//www.labbee.com

I posted the schematic on my website (top page) - I used a 3PDT switch to toggle between 1) clipping circuits, 2) gain setting resistor/cap circuits, and 3) indicator LEDs.

There are a couple of errors in that schematic - the 2) pole should be connected to the loop and the gain resistor/cap combo for the LED clipping circuit should be 33k/.01 uF.  If you want a copy of the revised schematic, I can e-mail it to you (I'd post the corrected one, but it's just too much of a hassle - long story.

[jimbob]

mlabbee- that would be cool! thanks..

[LinuxMan]

Ok.

I've decided. I'll do a flat mids mod.

Any thoughts about it? Anyone tried it with a switch?

Cheers
LM

[cd]

The problem with the flat mids mod that you've posted is that it's more like a "increase bass distortion" mod - the low end gets clipped which makes the pedal sound muddy (IMHO - you may like the sound.)  It is not a "flat mids" in the way you're probably thinking/wishing (like that other pedal maker's flat mids).  That one is more of a post distortion EQ to reduce the mids without muddying up the tone.

[petemoore]

Good place for a SPST is...
 Wherever you have a knob that by itself you can turn and go from a nice rythm crunch to a boosted lead tone by itself.
 Say it's a OD gain or Boost volume or whatever knob ...string some resistance in parallel or series with the pot [capacitence anyone?] to simulate the knob where you liked it 'here' for rythm and where you liked it 'there' for lead, and use the switch with that.
 Actually you can stick a resistor [or C] in just about anywhere on/in the signal path and get different results.

[SteveB]

It is not a "flat mids" in the way you're probably thinking/wishing (like that other pedal maker's flat mids).  That one is more of a post distortion EQ to reduce the mids without muddying up the tone.

Ah, finally! I have been seeing the cap changing mods, increasing the bass response, but it is not the same to my ears as the well know flat mid pedal. I thought it was just me.

Steve