NOS transistors... Got some? Got a lead on good sources?

[Skreddy]

I'm looking for NOS 2N5133 transistors.  The kind that are in a little brown button with a black domed top and have gold-colored leads.

I've run out of a great-sounding batch, and I should have realized how difficult it is to find the right stuff and took out a loan to buy more from the same supplier.  So far I've spent over $350 on either custom-made knockoffs that didn't make the grade (extremely low gain and noisy too) or NOSes that were not correct (about half as much gain as I want, plus the packaging is wrong, as well as the tone).

Trouble I'm having is there seems to be a growing cartel of parts locators on the East Coast that act as middlemen and won't let on the actual source.  I'm getting burned, twice in a row now, because I was unable to try before I buy.

Let's make a deal.

[petemoore]

I have an old 9v pocket radio that has 8 tin can Ge tranny's in it. I haven't scavved them out of it yet, but expect this is as good a source as any because they are NOS, but have yet to be 'picked over'....ie...if there are any good ones, I gets first picks.

[Torchy]

crp

[petemoore]

Used for FF's, Tonebenders and Rangemaster types.
 I've built hot FF sounding seriesed Rangemaster Fuzzes also, they don't clean up at guitvol like a FF tho.

[Skreddy]

I don't know what happened to my first reply.

Here goes again...

I use them for my Mayonaise pedal.  They're one important key to the fat, creamy tone of the triangle-knob Big Muff Pi that I cloned last year.  Plus use all the same style and value parts as the original; the magic doesn't happen unless all these factors are combined together.  I'm getting some NOS samples and may be back in the saddle soon.  Plus I bought a tiny lot on eBay (just 4!).  

The ones that have the best sound for me have a skinny cursive letter "F" in front of the part number and the number 843 after it.

[R.G.]

Have you thought about measuring them and finding other parts that are similar enough?

There are no magic parts, only parts you don't fully understand.

[birt]

my grandma's addic

[Hal]

isn't 843 a date code ?

[MartyB]

These brown-buttoned trannies with gold leads.  I have half a dozen, but the numbers are 2n3638, or  f1974 826.  Are these germanium?  I assumed they were silicon.

[Fret Wire]

http://www.kepcopower.com/inventory/inventory.htm

http://www.harpamps.com/micKguitars/Big-Muffs-reviewed.html

http://www.semiinc.com/PARTS/2N%20SERIES.htm

http://electroharmonix.ronsound.com/articles/harelip.html

http://www.hkinventory.com/public/OfferInventResult.asp?search=offerinvent&Order=1&pnums=2n5133&crit1=&crit2=&category=&product=&keywords=&words=3&country=&postdate=&brand=&SearchID=&crit3=&crit4=0&searchPN=&datecode=

http://www.nteinc.com/specs/100to199/pdf/nte161.pdf

[Torchy]

crp

[Skreddy]

Have you thought about measuring them and finding other parts that are similar enough?

There are no magic parts, only parts you don't fully understand.

Yeah.  I measured the gains of the transistors in my prototype and of the 6 loose transistors I have remaining, and their gains are between 400 and 700, mostly clustered around 500.

I have not measured leakages or any other variable.  All I know is that the good old ones are louder, bigger, rounder, and creamier sounding than other transistors of equal hfe (e.g. 2N5088's, etc), and are lower noise as well.

I have tried gain-selecting a buttload of 5088's, but when I use them in my circuit, I end up with a brittle, stiff, noisy effect with an overemphasized, cutting midrange.  Whereas the NOS 5133s create a huge, dynamic, liquidy, round, very brown tone with lots of bottom end and a good amount of harmonics (pronounced octave effect on higher frets plus pleasing hairy tone) without ever sounding harsh.

Call it what you will; mojo, life-force, libido, a certain je ne sai quais, the right stuff.  Something about the manufacturing process they once used and apparently no longer use makes for a very happy Big Muff.    The 'magic' happens when you play an effect and you get lost in the tone--you don't want to stop playing!  You know it's there when you get inspired to write new riffs when you're testing out a pedal.  You know it's not there when you continually adjust the knobs and can never find the 'right' setting.  So you're right; I certainly don't understand it.  But I can't deny it either.

Torchy: thanks for the followup.  Those could really be anything; it's hard to say without markings.   If their gains are in the 500 region and they're NPN, I'd still like to take them off your hands for a taste test.  I've got a sample on the way from a supplier right now, though.  I'm going to let him try to find me the right parts, and if he strikes out I'll pay you to mail yours out.  Thanks again.

Fretwire: thank you for the links.  I'm very happy to have more places to look.  

MartyB: those are PNP's you've got.  I'm sure they're silicon, not germanium.

Thanks, all.

[cd]

Skreddy I think what RG was hinting at was there's a lot more to measuring similarities between transistors than just sticking them in a meter and matching Hfe.  I would say meter Hfe is nearly useless unless you're comparing identical transistors for gain in that meter (all the meter does is apply a certain amount of base current, nothing else) - put the transistor(s) in an actual circuit and they will behave differently.

Being a commercial builder you should be able to figure it all out, but I would think it boils down to which is more cost effective in terms of time and $$ spent: (a) tracking down rare NOS transistors or (b) adapting your circuit to a modern, more easily found part.  Then again (a) has a lot of mojo marketing possibilities so even if you can do (b), (a) may be preferable in the long run.

[Skreddy]

Bottom line is I want what I want.    This is not a big business for me, and I will just stop making them if I can't make them as I see fit.

[Dan N]

My triangle BMP used PNP trannies. Perhaps search out a compliment to the 2N5133 and flip your polarity?

[Skreddy]

Yeah; the one I 'cloned' actually used PNP too.  But the transistors had some proprietary part numbers, and I prefer NPN for simplicity and compatibility.  I was just lucky to find that the 2N5133's sound awesome.  But the PNP version would be just as hard to find anyway, so I'd rather just stick with NPN and have standard, compatible power supply.  Thanks for your idea, though.  I bet your old BMP sounds cool, huh?  

[danceatron]

these kind ?
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G14976

[Sir H C]

Skreddy-

I would recommend going to hamfests and talking up some of the people who are dumping stuff.  Often they might work at a place that has a cache of the old transistors and they are just looking to get them out of there.  Also check out companies that used those transistors in their products (HP or the like?), and see if they have some lying around that they just don't need.

OFten the big companies don't know what they have until you ask.

[aron]

I'm looking for them as well. I haven't needed them in a while, but might as well keep looking.

[zjokka]

oo oo oo, what a little googlin' can do oo oo:

http://www.mark5.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=2N5133

ouch, only ten in stock left!! at £0.77

converter from Gehunter to Piggybacker some time ago. Spend some crazy money myself but not in price range of a Holiest Grail to name just something. wow man

zj