Oh, my Lord! I've etched a board!

[David]

Trust me, Toneman.  No HCl inside.  While my single experiment doesn't seem to have caused any problems, I don't plan to tempt fate.

[Michael Allen]

Mixing chemicals can definately have some adverse affects, to say the least. It's a hell of a lot of fun (Chemistry Major) but you've got to have some common sense doing it. So make sure you do this stuff in an open area.

[smashinator]

Anyone else have a chem lab partner that dumped some (tiny little bit)sodium (and a few other reactive metals) in the sink while the faucet was running?

Now THAT is exciting chemistry!

[David]

Anyone else have a chem lab partner that dumped some (tiny little bit)sodium (and a few other reactive metals) in the sink while the faucet was running?

Now THAT is exciting chemistry!

Sorry, Smash.  When it comes to chemistry, I'd rather be a wimp...

With that in mind, I tried something else in the muriatic acid saga that shows signs of promise.  My previous etch attempts were done with el cheapo bargain peroxide.  Probably three percent or less (if I'm lucky).  A co-worker who is chemically savvy suggested I try 30% peroxide.  I located some at a beauty supply store.  When I got home, I Sharpied my traces, put my board in a glass coffeepot, and poured in just enough muriatic to cover the board.  Then I dumped in approximately the same amount of high strength peroxide, held my breath and jumped back.  Nothing untoward happened.  The board etched down in probably 3 to 4 minutes.  The inside traces look good.  I lost part of the ground plane and one, maybe two of the traces that attach to it.  I think I can get around this by doing a better job with the transfer pattern, putting in less muriatic and more peroxide.

Oh, yeah, the garage door was WIDE open while I did this!  I didn't spill any on the garage, me or my clothes. I also didn't breathe any chlorine.  I feel OK.

This could just work!

[toneman]

David:
"a beauty supply store"   4 30% H2O2.
Now that's a great tip!!!
sure, that's whrer all the Peroxide Blonds come from!!   LOL!!!
The coffeepot didn't have any metal parts??
Mine has a metal ring arround the outside.
Next time, instead of "sharpie", just get some fingernail polish
and a fine tip arists' brush.  U can "paint" a BeU-Ti-Full pcb
in a very short time.  Polish drys fast fast fast, & comes off with
acetone or laquerthinner.
I'm sticking to the toner transfer stuff 4 one-z-two-zs.
I'm just now laying a FF universal tester/derrivitive pcb with trimmers.
My last pcb in the etch collection for T-Day.
StaySafe
Tone

[David]

David:
"a beauty supply store"   4 30% H2O2.
Now that's a great tip!!!
sure, that's whrer all the Peroxide Blonds come from!!   LOL!!!

Happy to be of assistance, sir!  And dig this:  they had concentrations ranging from 10% all the way up to 50% by volume.  Be careful, though.  I picked around until I found something that was marked "clear". It had the peroxide.  It also was stabilized(?) with phosphoric acid.  This didn't seem to make any perceptible difference to the reaction.  But like I said, maybe I can cut the amount of muriatic acid and possibly boost the amount of peroxide.  I only have one trace to fix.  I'm not sure it's worth it.  I'd kind of like to get that Flatline built and into the lineup.  Then I can retire my DOD Compressor/Sustainer.

The coffeepot didn't have any metal parts??
Mine has a metal ring arround the outside.

Yeah, it does.  Too bad for the pot.  If it breaks, I'll bop over to Goodwill.
Haven't sloshed anything out yet.  I talked my in-laws into giving it to me just for the purpose.  They didn't understand why, but they gave it to me.  They also got me an ancient toaster oven I may someday use to bake painted pedals in.

Next time, instead of "sharpie", just get some fingernail polish
and a fine tip arists' brush.  U can "paint" a BeU-Ti-Full pcb
in a very short time.  Polish drys fast fast fast, & comes off with
acetone or laquerthinner.

There's something I can use!  Thanks, Tone!
Hmmm...  wonder if my 8-year-old daughter has any polish and artists' brushes that I could make "disappear"?  She should be in bed soon...  :twisted:

[toneman]

" It also was stabilized(?) with phosphoric acid"

I'll have 2 look more into this........
Let's C now.......
Mmmmm, 10%, 30%, nail files, nail polish,.....
Might as will have a pedicure also.......
:-)

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

Sorry Toneman, I didn't realise you were just getting the copper out of solution!
As for the 'stabilised with phosphoric acid', what is happening here is this: hydrogen peroxide is a weak acid, and happens to decompose slowly if there is any dust or impurities present that acts as catalysts. The phosphoric acid, also being a weak acid, tends to latch onto the catalysts & block their action. Ther eisn't enough phosphoric there to have any effect.

If you want SPECTACULAR, get some liver (you dont need much) and blend it with some water.
Then mix it wiht hydrogen peroxide... WHOOOOSH!!!!!!! the peroxide splits into water and oxygen and foams all over the place. Dangerous if it is more than 2% peroxide because of the heat generated. The liver contains lots of chemicals that break down various chemicals, one of the enzymes there is 'peroxidase', that does the trick!

[toneman]

First BeautyShop peroxide and nail polish..
now.....Liver?
after googling,
H2O2, an oxidizer, is used for removing organic wastes the clog
leach lines in sepic systems.  
Yes, phosphoric acid as a stabilizer should B no problemo.

links i found---
http://www.hydromall.com/happy_grower19.html

http://pub126.ezboard.com/fwelcomehome46867frm5.showMessage?topicID=222.topic

http://www.h2o2.com/intro/faq.html

Much much good NFO on this forum.
thanx Paul.....
StayOxidixed
tone

[NaBo]

hey... im new to this stuff, and i just etched 3 circuit boards...  i had to leave it in a little longer cuz i didnt bother steel wooling the BACK of the board... silly me.  anyways, they all turned out okay, but the first board i layed out has a tiny gap in one of the paths... maybe .5 mm?  i can just fix tiny gaps or near-gaps like that with just a bit of solder right?  will it have noticeable effect on the sound?

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

Small gaps aren't a problem, just solder a bit of wire over the gap. (you might find that solder doesn't covert the gap too easily). There won't be any difference sonically.

[toneman]

best to use small leftover resistor leed to bridge the gap.
I just did this on a cracked pcb.  
In my case, strengthens the pcb also.
Just makes a better connection than blobbing solder.
wire affecting the sound???
come on....
it's *all* wire & solder anyway.
does the resistor stick 2 your magnatized pliers?
cause i't's got a *steel* core !
gold connectors indeed!!
when all the other connections are copper, steel and lead.
stayconnected
tone

[Dragonfly]

another "tip" ....sharpies dont work too well....try using a black paint marker instead...ive had much better luck that way. more solid traces, and its more resistant to the etchant.

[NaBo]

wire affecting the sound???
come on....

i was talking about just bridging the gap with just solder affecting the sound.

anyways, thanks people.

[David]

wire affecting the sound???
come on....

i was talking about just bridging the gap with just solder affecting the sound.

anyways, thanks people.

NaBo:  That shouldn't be an issue.  If it was, we wouldn't be using printed circuit boards.