FUZZ I've had it, whats the deal??

[analog kid]

I'm fed up trying to figure out what's wrong, if it's wrong with my AxisFace silicon. I am downright convinced that the circuit is fine AND there are no problems with the off board wiring. I followed the inst. for wiring a DPDT switch off Fuzz Central FAQ and have tested each pot individually that the taper is smooth and the value correct.
the :"problem" is that the FuZZ is BRUTAL at the very top of the 2k pot taper. sounds great don't get me wrong , but what if  you don't want to play with that much gain?? Well there's the prob. ,when you try to back off the FUZZ just a bit, the volume drops with it soo much that you have to make up with the level and even then the FUZZ is just not really there. Just a really  mild , VERY slightly overdriven signal.  
Idon't know if any of this is normal with a face though??
So anyway this has been pretty much my only prob. with keeping me from making my box and finishing this pedal And I suddenly realized while tweaking and tying different pot wiring/gound combos to see if the fuzz cont. was wrong, That The BIAS(50k Smooth) control has been up at least halfway the whole time I've been trying to back off the FUZZ control, and I knew that this cntl does mellow the FUZZ And found that when I leave it down a good bit or all the way The FUZZ "IS" more porportioned as it's turned down . And alot 'fuzzier'!! SO HAS THAT BEEN MY 'PROBLEM' ALL ALONG  ?? Would/Should the bias control cause the Fuzz to act that way when turned down. It seems pretty acceptable as long as that Bias is kept down , OF course it still has a pretty good spike at the very end of the taper and goes to super GAIN Super Quick when  going from 9 to 10 and gets a good bit louder.
Someone PLEEEASEE tell me if all this is normal!!? I am starting to think !! that you just have to dial in a good sound and LEAVE it there + Not try to reach down and do suttle tweaking because too many levels interact and you have to change two or three volume settings before you're done.
Otherwise and even so, this thing does have a killer sound, great tone that comes out alot more at full on fuzz, and is unreal Quiet for any distortion Let Alone one that I BUILT!!

[petemoore]

tweek the value/taper of the pot with fixed R's 'till it does what you want. You can 'tag' 'em on the pot, both ends, then use the leads to connect to board wires. EXPeriment with DMM, R's between say 2k2 and 22k and the otherwise detached pot.
 or...use another pot to vary taper for different pickup output/gain levels when maxxed, [or...then replace that pot's values with fixed R's.]
 or...install sockets for tapering resistor[s between:
R on  lugs 2'n3 [alters taper]
or lug 2'n1 [alters taper]
or lugs 1'n3 [lowers pot value]
or 3 'n Gnd [raises R range of 2k2 pot from ground to upper connection, gain pot no longer goes all the way to ground.]

[RDV]

The RM Axis is a very gainy circuit stock, but it was designed for fairly low output pickups. I like brutal fuzzzzz...

RDV

[analog kid]

whoah! do you mean like you do to change say a 500k to a 250k pot?? 'and  if so I wouldn't know which way to go with the 2k ,lower value like the original which I would assume , higher.... AND what value resistors should I "start ' with while experimenting.   ??
Will this give me a more gradual build toward that full on FUZZ instead of that" 1-8 very mild 8-10 Metal thrashin Mad"?

Finally I"ve been seeing alot about this "cleaning up " with the Guitar volume control. When I think of this , I just think of it slightly cleaning up the GAIN as you turn down> but I have read some posts that suggest a meaning for this term that's something like what I've been getting , where the effect can go from Very Dirty TO a somewhat Clean overdriven with the flick of the Volume knob.!!!! IS this something that is inherent in a Fuzz Face?? QUOTE ON "EASY DRIVE"  :

No special germanium transistors are required to get a truly classic tone. And it will go from dirty to clean with a flick of the guitar volume.

[RDV]

Here's a clip demonstrating the clean-up-ability of the RM Axis Fuzz.

RDV

[RDV]

Oops! I didn't realize you said AXIS FACE rather than FUZZ. I know nothing about that one.

Sorry

RDV

[analog kid]

RDV, I like the "brutal" fuzz as well. I just also like the choice and flexibility of adjusting the fuzz to taste !~!~! and with the taper problem I have with this effect (very hot at the end  and not much fuzz until then , at least not unless the bias cntl. is down to off) I just don't have that.
PETE, sorry about the questions, I didn't see your whole message , just the 1st sentence~!but I am not sure about the resistor values to "alter" the taper of the 2k pot?? could you give me an example value to lower it say to 1.5 or 1k?? does the pots value lower the amount of whatever resistor you use? ie; a 500ohm resistor placed on lugs 2and3 would lower the Pot to a 0 to 1.5k pot?? If not I'd appreciate it if you could tell me.

I didn't get an answer on wether the bias pot being turned UP should cause the Fuzz to seem much less noticeable at the lower 3/4 of the fuzz pot?

[bwanasonic]

You don't mention how your guitar's volume control figures into the whole equation. This is often the most important control with a well biased fuzz. I rarely vary the *fuzz* control from full-on, using the guitar's volume for gain control instead. The other important factor is the type of pickups. If you are using high output humbuckers, it will be a different scenario than low output  single-coils.

Kerry M

[phillip]

The fuzz control on Fuzz Face-style circuits tends to work like that.  There isn't a lot of fuzz til near the end of the rotation of the fuzz pot, which is why most people leave them turned either all the way up or nearly all the way up.  I personally think that a 1K or 2K reverse audio taper pot would go a long way towards solving the problem, but I've never seen such a beast.  I tried the tapering resistors once or twice, but I think the configuration of the fuzz pot, with the capacitor to ground on the wiper, made the pot do some wierd things...never could get it to work properly.

The smooth control is a nice addition to the circuit because it allows you to add more variation to the fuzz that's all bunched up at the end of the fuzz pot's rotation.  Cranking the smooth control up will soften the fuzz so much when it's turned most of the way up that the circuit will start to sound a whole lot like an overdrive pedal.

Phillip

[analog kid]

thankyou thankyou thankyou..Phillip
all this time fighting with this effect w/o knowing if I really had anything I should be fighting!! that's pretty much what I wanted to hear. I had a feeling that's I'd like to have heard that I couljust the way the thing was supposed to act. though Id like to have heard I could achieve slightly lower levels of that SAME type of Fuzz you get at the top by backing off the control

1: (and just to be clear, that last little turn of the pot between 9/10 brings on a Razors edge and even more of a volume boost to the fuzz as compared to even the 8 position)_ so it IS normal??
I assume then that if most of you usually leave the fuzz control mOSt all the way up , that it is the nature of the thing for the Bias to only work effectively to shape the Fuzz WHEN the it's (FUZZ ) is all the way up. When the Bias is turned UP with the Fuzz anything below 7or8 the pedal sounds more like a Preamp boost than Distortion, as Phillip I think was saying.

2: Would it be of no gain to me to try anything with altering the taper of the2k pot then>/? What difference would using a 1k OR 5k pot give to the FuZZ control??
3: (PHILLIP)Which components that you put onto the Revision 3 Axis face CAN be added with the circuit board layed out for the 2nd revision?? If there is room to fit them in there can the Cap and other components be stuck in there(except for the extra Trans. socket)
4: LAST QUESTION - Can a 1k resistor be used instead of 1.2k to hook up a 5mm LED with a 3PDT switch?? I recall a SD-1 mod that changed to 3.something-k

[jmusser]

That's how my Easy Face is. Basically, the guitar volume has to be wide open, along with the pregain and volume. I just figured it was the nature of the beast. I have other fuzzes that give me what you're asking for, but they also don't get the "Face" sound, so it's a trade off I guess. I don't know a gob about gains and all that, but I figured that overall, this was just a low gain circuit that had to have the guitar volume clear up to even drive the circuit (single coil). The effects volume has to be basically all the way up to break over to fuzz, but it's sweet, mellow, and bassy. The Rex's Fuzz will do exactly what you're talking about, but it has almost enough gain by it's self, to not have to use an amp with it!  I would guess the fact that is is just at the brink of fuzzing, is why it sounds mellow like it does and not have the harshness of most other fuzzes.

[phillip]

The fuzz starts running wide open at the end of the rotation, yes.

The taper of the fuzz pot could stand being a reverse audio taper, like I said before, but I've never been able to get the tapering resistor trick to work with the fuzz control on the fuzz face circuits.  Using a higher value won't be of any advantage on the Silicon Fuzz Face (I don't think...).  Using a 2K pot on a Germanium Fuzz Face-style circuit just prevents the transistor from becomming saturated, but I've never had that problem with a Silicon-based circuit so I always use a 1K linear taper pot.

The only big difference between the Revision 2 PCB and the Revision 3 PCB is the addition of the 0.047uF capacitor that parallels the 1K2 resistor in Revision 3.  There's no provision for that capacitor on the Revision 2 PCB, but it's possible to solder it in there somehow...either tack it on at the ends of the exposed leads of the 1K2 resistor on the component side of the board, or solder it to the copper side of the circuit board.

You can use a 1K resistor with a LED...the smaller the value the brighter the LED will be, but current consumption will also increase.  Also, if you make the resistor too small the LED can be wiped out from too much current.  I usually use anywhere between a 1K and 2K2, depending on the LED and how bright it is.

Phillip

[analog kid]

Using a 2K pot on a Germanium Fuzz Face-style circuit just prevents the transistor from becomming saturated, but I've never had that problem with a Silicon-based circuit so I always use a 1K linear taper pot.

You DID call for the 2k in your partslist and layout for this Fuzz though>>There was a reason for this I remember reading it on the site , but when I looke at the 3rd Rev. you listed < I Seem to remember seeing that it was switched back to a 1k pot! What will the benefit or harm of using that be? AND If it's economical to do , what value and type of resistor mod can I use to make this 2k  taper like a 1k pot???

Also Phillip ,you seem to have alot of experience with these hammond boxes , can one just sand these things down BY HAND with like 220 then 600 grit black paper Then use steel wool to get the scratches smoothed? i know you can't get that cool texturing like that but ohwell. Will any CLEAR acrylic work to coat the metal>

[phillip]

Using a 2K fuzz pot in a Silicon Fuzz Face-style circuit won't hurt anything...not reallly any advantages or disadvantages.  I've used 2Ks in Silicon circuits before and it sounded the same as a 1K.

Check out the FAQ page at Fuzz Central for a short little "article" that tells how I sand the boxes.  It would take a lot of sanding to get them like that by hand...I use a hand-held orbital sander with 220-grit sandpaper.

I always use Lacquer paints on the boxes...I never could get enamel paints to work worth a crap on aluminum...it never gets hard unless it's baked on.  Lacquer dries fast and hard (within 10 minutes if it's warm and not humid).

Phillip

[Mojah63]

Back to your original problem. The volume drops off a lot when you back off the fuzz??  Mine was doing that at first untill I rebiased the 2nd transistor buy ear. It ended up closer to 5v than 4.5V  Now the controls seem to work like the descriptions. I ended up with a smaller cap (.022) than Phillip across the 1k2 resistor to cut out the fizzies..

[Eric H]

Also Phillip ,you seem to have alot of experience with these hammond boxes , can one just sand these things down BY HAND with like 220 then 600 grit black paper Then use steel wool to get the scratches smoothed?

Hand-sanding takes a bit of effort, but you need to start with serious paper (60 grit)  and attach the paper to a board (tape or whatever) .

-Eric

[analog kid]

Oh yes, the volume drop with the rapid decline in the effect of the fuzz is very significant, especially going from the RAZOR edge fuzz at 10 back to about 7-8 . Which Phillip seems to say is the way it's supposed to act. Just not real desireable< though I can't argue the quality of the fuzz(when it's up)
so you had this problem BUT it was corrected "to a degree" by doing what you described?? I may try it, along w/ adding that .047 cap from the Rev3

as far as the sanding (eric) Would it still be ok in your opinion to go back to use that heavy paper EVEN AFTER I have taken quite a bit of the original metal off by sanding with 220 then 600 then steel wool?? Cause I'm still not very happy with the way the metal looks( lots of little spots of discoloration kindof like water spots or something) and hate to paint it w/ clear acrylic not being happyw/it.

[Eric H]

as far as the sanding (eric) Would it still be ok in your opinion to go back to use that heavy paper EVEN AFTER I have taken quite a bit of the original metal off by sanding with 220 then 600 then steel wool?? Cause I'm still not very happy with the way the metal looks( lots of little spots of discoloration kindof like water spots or something) and hate to paint it w/ clear acrylic not being happyw/it.

as far as  I can tell those spots are in the metal (impurities or different alloys?) and may not come out. Try it and see.

-Eric

[analog kid]

Yeah that's likely what they are. I stuck some 120g on a block and went to it though. and that got those spots really cut down then I went to some 320 black paper and on again to 400 and I seem to have really gotten a pretty good even shine to the box or better than I thought I d get. I would like to go ahead and drill and use it as is and Maybe do some painting and labels on down the road when I get the right stuff.
Anyone of you know the best bit to use (and size for the 1/4" jacks and switches....I think my pots are Alpha 16mm so I don't know what size bit to use for those either . OR the best way to set up the location of the holes. Is there a printable template anywhere ? Or a good method at least /
Thanks

[analog kid]

Never mind the 'Template questoin' < I found R.G.'s template for my box.  Props to you man that's detail!!! Now it will take me all day tomorrow morning to figure out how to use it!!!!  I'm sure my box will look ALOT better because of that template