Fuzz build closest to hendrix's sound?

[Kcollins]

I'm looking to build a fuzz ,it'll be my fist complete pedal build.. what one is closest to his tone?

[panasonic_youth]

wellllllll.......... geofex.com, click on 'FX technology', or whatever that is. the technology of the fuzzface. learn about the circuit, that will do you great good, then swing down the page to the 'mods and magic' section. it has the roger mayer mods that hendrix used. thats the 'fuzz' that will sound most like  him, he used it! but you could also build this octavia, he used that as well. is this your first build or have you built other things? that will help us tell you what to go for.

[Fret Wire]

For the "Are You Experienced" and "Monterey" sound, the Dallas Arbiter Fuzz circuit with the Mayer mods that Panasonic Youth is referring to is what you want. For the "Axis", and later (Band of Gypsys) fuzz sound, he used the Roger Mayer Axis Fuzz circuit.

[panasonic_youth]

yea, but didnt he use the octavia as well? regardless, the octavia just rules because you can switch off the transformer and have a really raw distortion sound.

[Kcollins]

wellllllll.......... geofex.com, click on 'FX technology', or whatever that is. the technology of the fuzzface. learn about the circuit, that will do you great good, then swing down the page to the 'mods and magic' section. it has the roger mayer mods that hendrix used. thats the 'fuzz' that will sound most like  him, he used it! but you could also build this octavia, he used that as well. is this your first build or have you built other things? that will help us tell you what to go for.

This is going to be my first complete build, previously I've just modded stuff. The F/X projects on generalguitargadgets.com are what I've been looking at and seem doable to me. The thing is that they have a bunch of different fuzz projects listed there. I'm gonna wait for smallbear to open but I figured I'd get a head start.

[panasonic_youth]

yea, do the fuzz face w/ the mods.  easy build, im going to be building a variant of the fuzz face once i get to radioshack or my samples come, whichever happens first....

[petemoore]

I always start at the speakers, the way any good component anylist would, without them no electric guitar sounds can be made. How 'good' or 'better' that are at what you want them to do will influnce how satisfied you are with them and everything else in the chain. Reports are that Greenback Celestions were what Jimi used and are available. Any 'reasonable' facsimile' or Old Fender style Jensens...
 Then I'd to go the amp to look for some nice power to use the speakers capability. For this application, I'd have to recommend tubes.
 You could always build a FF anytime, they're not real hard to do, but they work different with different amps.
 Then I'd go for the clean side, and get the guitar I'd want to be using to work for that, or get one that does.
 Since I've been hinting, I'll be more direct about asking...anyone using a FF as 1rst Fuzz with a SS amp? what amp?
 For a convincing Hendrix vibe, a 'better' echo/[reverb?], a real nice Wah, and a Uni-Vibe are very useful.

[Kcollins]

Well my amp is tube and the cab has 2 v30's.  For the FF builds whats the difference between the pnp, npn, negative ground, and positive ground stuff?

[bwanasonic]

As Pete implies, speakers, amp, and of course, guitars are HUGE factors in the overall tone recipe. Setting aside the "it's all in the fingers" factor, if you had the actual FF Jimi used for a given sound, chances are it wouldn't sound very *Jimi* like unless a number of other factors were met. I also think JH was a master at *playing the effect*, using his guitars volume knob and playing dynamics. I think what's more useful than trying to find the pedal that sounds like Jimi, is to find the *Jimi* in whatever setup you are using. The other factor that is often not available to the aspiring Hendrix fan, is not obscure pedals or holy grail transistors, but SHEER VOLUME. If you've never had the pleasure, the guitar becomes an entirely different beast when enlarged to the scale that Hendrix often worked at. Don't get *too* hung up on circuit specifics. Especially since Jimi had a constantly evolving setup. The general guideline of "Ge for early stuff, Si for later stuff" is useful to keep in mind, but try to look at the big picture, and then remind yourself that very few have really *copped* that sound, although legions have tried. If you have a specific recorded example of a tone you a going for, maybe a more specific suggestion can be made. But "It's my first pedal, how can I sound like Jimi?" is more than a little *pie in the sky*.

Kerry M

[squidsquad]

I'm not trying to negate what any of the others have suggested...nor bragging.  But you can sound like Jimi w/any amp or fuzz...if you've really nailed his style.  Eg:  if your playing the first 3-4 notes of the Purple Haze lick down on your 3rd fret "G" bar cord position...it'll never sound right.  Might be similar notes...but he played it on the D-G-B string in the middle of the neck. Watch a video of him live.
You gotta NAIL his finger vibrato.  You can get the octaves on the solo...without an octavia...if you know how to pinch harmonics.
You DO have to be loud...on the verge of feedback...or over the top.
Bottom line...the equipment is secondary to the technique.  My $0.02
(and 40 years of practice).

[Kcollins]

guys, do not get me wrong here... I know that a pedal will not make you sound like any guitar player. I was not trying to say that by any means. I just want a fuzz and figured since he was the king of it, why not build something similar? Sorry if my title sounded like I thought I was gonna nail his tone because of a pedal, that was not my intention.

[Fret Wire]

I'm looking to build a fuzz ,it'll be my fist complete pedal build.. what one is closest to his tone?

No problem, it didn't sound to me like you were saying you could nail his tone just because of a pedal. Sometimes when you mention a famous player, you're gonna get the "fingers, tone, amp" replys regardless.

Pick the period you want, and build a Dallas Arbiter with the Mayer Mods, or an Axis Fuzz. Fuzz Central has excellent data on the Axis Fuzz. Both General Guitar Gadgets and Tonepad have great Dallas Arbiter layouts and pcb boards for sale. The Mayer mods RG Keen has on his GEO site (technology of the fuzz) are accurate. I have one of the early Mayer fuzz's, and RG's info is spot on. I also sent the values to Phillip at Fuzz Central, it's listed under RM Classic Fuzz Early Version.

[petemoore]

I like to try thinking like the guy I admire.
 Like Jimi, get the best amp/speakers you can...[smaller is probably more usable 'till your outdoors or...]
 Like Roger, work with what's available and build effects tailored to the amp.
 Like Jimi again, work with what you have and go for tone/variety...
 I see no reason to advise Not building a FF in your case, theyu're not tuff, and expensive, and ,.. well they're FF's...
 If you get a FF going you like, which I feel you surely can, then the Axis for BOG type tones ... excellent box for driving an already pushed tube amp...take a look at the Sundail...IMO it opened new doors to "Hendrixian Channelling", tones from PDClean, slight treble content enhancement, ...and everything between that and Severely Saturated FUZZ [available at guitar volume settings].
 I'll play Devils advocate and say he may have plugged a FF into an Axis at some point...and R.M. post read [can't believe everything you read, supposedly Roger said]:...we had these FF enclosures just laying around, so we'd take whatever circuit we had and put them in one of those.
 I don't see why he wouldn't have, he tried everything else probably many times, different effect orders 'n such's that...I dunno except I use it and it allows deeper saturation, is much usable, and gets *Me 'there', where none of my 2 transistor Fuzzes will go...to more extreme severity of punishment, still  cleans up real nice at guitar, like FF.
 Suggestions If you're gonna build a FF, trimpot Q2 collector resistor as V/R, socket the transistors and input cap [output cap?], or build a Multi Face. Order some 2n2369 Si NpN transistors for  use in Q1 position...get  some NPN Si with gain around 90-150 Hfe [2n2222, 2n3904 etc.] to try in Q2.
 Have a great build !!!
 Oh have you wet your feet yet with circuit debugging? If not I'd go for a single transistor gain stage like the NPN Boost...beginners forum...excellent.

[Kcollins]

Now what's all the positive/negative ground stuff? What one should I build?

[petemoore]

All of them...on one or a couple of boards...
 I used perf, but would probably use Vero...nice layout...and amke a FF testboard.
 Socket all caps and transistors, trimpot on Q2, PNP Pos Gnd. Ge or Hybrid FF. try your PNP Transistors on this POS GND PS board, including some Ge's for the Ge sound...
 --------------------------------
 Multi Face with a buncha sockets for C's 'n Q's, NPN NEG Gnd., this is what I've been using.
 ----------------------
 Switchinga FF board from Pnp POS Gnd to NPN NEg Gnd is as easy as inverting the polarity of the PS V+ and V- [battery clip Black and Red] and any polarized caps used. [If you socketted the 22uf and used nonpolars for input/output DC blocking you just have to turn that 22uf around, and invert PS polarity]. You can make a test board to try all the different FF's, I like to 'race' 'em, so I like having the 'other' boards setup available to retry and compare.
 The board itself costs little, building them takes me now about 30-40 minutes, building a more permanent one based on results of the testboard...not too tuff either.
 Basically you can mess around with these FF's for long time.
 Everybody's got a 'take' on the 'ol Feedback circuit, all of them that
 work, work great. [The only bad scheamtic of FF type Cct. was taken down I think].
 For starters I'd, build with extra adjustability an NPN Si FF Neg Gnd., get some 2n2369's for Q1, and try different transistors mentioned in the almost countless FF configurations shown online.
 Trying a Ge FF?...make a Hfe Matcher [GEO Technology of the FF...great read for FF builders] and buy a buncha Ge transistors and go to town testing them...or
 COntact Small Bear Electronics and order matched set[s of Ge transistors...pretested, documented, and with bias values.

[Kcollins]

My plan was to get the set from smallbear when he opens.

[jmusser]

I have to agree with the sheer volume part of the equation. I have never played wide open, because I've never had a bomb shelter to play in, but here's a case for you. I've had the extreme pleasure of being able to see Jimmy Thackery and the Drivers live a couple times in a small bar. He is known for his blues, but this one night in particular, he had drank several tequilla shots, and decided he would end the night with "Star Spangled Banner" As far as I know, he had no fuzz, and just played his strat through a dirty tube amp. He maxed out in that little teeny bar until I thought for sure my ears would bleed. I believe it rained paint off the ceiling of that place for 3 days afterwards! I closed my eyes, and it sounded just like Hendrix at Woodstock, with all the jet planes, bombs and feedback. It was so loud, that I screamed at the top of my lungs, and couldn't hear my own voice! So, besides an amazing set of hands to play with, there is a lot to be said for just good old LOUD, and a tube amp melting down!

[petemoore]

THere's a thousand FF's.
 Phillip has the Axis Face up, purported to be very good...haven't actually tried modding one to that scheme yet...
 Ok... here's a boil down to a certain 'yer basic nicely tuned FF', I think It does a top shelf job.
 2n2369 for Q1...trimpot for Q2's collector resistor, as many sockets as you chooose to employ...in this order...
1  *Both Q's socketted
2  *Input cap socket
3  Output cap ?
4  22uf cap ?
 Start with a 2k linear pot for gain, trim it with a tapering R, to set max gain, or just set the pot by turning it...
 I just use the 22uf, and a .1uf for output, then revalue the socketted input cap to tune the mud out or let more bass come in.
 Too much highs? add rolloff caps between Q1 base and ground ...and/or... Q2 B/C. ...or Q2 Collector and ground...[ .001uf - .0068uf ?].
 Tune the FF to your amp and guitar, takes a while, testing this way and that...
 Some of the best tones a FF has is with the volume set 'here' gain set 'there' and use of the guitar's volume control to set gain.
 Here's what I do...
 FF Volume up past at least 6
 Amp Volume where it likes it
 Guitar volume ... well between 4 'n 10 ... for clean trebly boost to fine FUzz.
 Dont' forget though to do alot of knob and even trimpot settings when testing/tuning the FF. It'll sound different as the amp sounds louder.

[RDV]

Without a vintage Marshall, none of them do.

RDV

[petemoore]

You're probably right-er than I know RDV, but I'm havin' a good 'ol time tryin' even with my abandon/rejuvinated/loved RCA Victor, and it sure isn't like my MkII > 4/12'' GB's. Quite good nonetheless.
 I used to ... rememeber when I had an SLP and the DYNA, 4 GB's and four VOX Bulldog Speakers...And a Sound inforced house, with that and suitable PA in the basement ... 5 Minutes = 18 Hr. Noise Hangover ... sure was satisfying though...
 Today I refitted a Multi Face, biased right up [once I de-bridged Q1 C/B, after dropping the Q1 Collector resistor to a 33k]...to what I like, rolloff on Q1 base, a 2n2369, 2n2222 for Q2 today...another remarkable FF, This one's working superbly, and is already in the nice multi with Tycho and Fetzer...[just finished the Sparkle Booster last night, NICE 1 Fet OD tone].